Why believing in god helps me

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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#21  Postby Onyx8 » Jan 18, 2011 1:47 am

the mouse wrote:
CookieJon wrote:
Not really, for then the question would be "do you believe in a higher power?", not "do you believe in captial-G God?"

Do you see?


No, the terms are interchangeable. Anyone who believes in a higher power, believes in God, or in other words God = higher power.


Do you make any differentiation between any 'God' and any 'higher power' whatsoever? Or are the terms always interchangeable?
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#22  Postby CookieJon » Jan 18, 2011 1:48 am

the mouse wrote:
CookieJon wrote:
Not really, for then the question would be "do you believe in a higher power?", not "do you believe in captial-G God?"

Do you see?


No, the terms are interchangeable. Anyone who believes in a higher power, believes in God, or in other words God = higher power.


Don't be silly!

Anyway, why do you spell "God" with a capital letter but not "higher power"? If the terms are interchangeable, oughtn't they both be proper nouns?
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#23  Postby CookieJon » Jan 18, 2011 1:51 am

CdesignProponentsist wrote:There is such a thing as agnostic theism. You don't have to choose a god to believe that there is one.


Yes, I've conceded that.

I just wonder how you derive strength from it if you know absolutely nothing about it, that's all.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#24  Postby the mouse » Jan 18, 2011 1:51 am

Goldenmane wrote: And here we run into the problem of non-rigorous thought.


It has nothing to do with rigorous thought, and all to do with language. A number of our newly minted atheist have an unfamiliarity with the word "God". The poster said that he believes in a higher power that gives him comfort, an atheist who is familiar with the vocabulary should have asked how does this God/Higher power give him comfort, and from such question one would garner more about the nature of this higher power that he believes in.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#25  Postby the mouse » Jan 18, 2011 1:52 am

CookieJon wrote:

Anyway, why do you spell "God" with a capital letter but not "higher power"?


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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#26  Postby Skinny Puppy » Jan 18, 2011 1:54 am

the mouse wrote:
Goldenmane wrote: And here we run into the problem of non-rigorous thought.


It has nothing to do with rigorous thought, and all to do with language. A number of our newly minted atheist have an unfamiliarity with the word "God". The poster said that he believes in a higher power that gives him comfort, an atheist who is familiar with the vocabulary should have asked how does this God/Higher power give him comfort, and from such question one would garner more about the nature of this higher power that he believes in.


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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#27  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jan 18, 2011 2:00 am

CookieJon wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:There is such a thing as agnostic theism. You don't have to choose a god to believe that there is one.


Yes, I've conceded that.

I just wonder how you derive strength from it if you know absolutely nothing about it, that's all.


The problem is you are trying to draw a line from one to the other through logic. Faith is delusional not logical and does not require explanation. One can derive emotional strength from delusion probably much easier than through logic, which is why humans have a tendency towards it in the first place.

I'm sure it can and probably has been explored scientifically and shown that it produces some dopamine somewhere in the brain that makes you feel better.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#28  Postby Goldenmane » Jan 18, 2011 2:03 am

the mouse wrote:
Goldenmane wrote: And here we run into the problem of non-rigorous thought.


It has nothing to do with rigorous thought, and all to do with language. A number of our newly minted atheist have an unfamiliarity with the word "God". The poster said that he believes in a higher power that gives him comfort, an atheist who is familiar with the vocabulary should have asked how does this God/Higher power give him comfort, and from such question one would garner more about the nature of this higher power that he believes in.


Bullshit.

Asking "which one?" is equivalent to "define your terms". "I believe in God" is properly responded to with "What is this god thing you speak of?" or, "define your terms"... or "which one?"

Because the word "god", even capitalised, is not defined. It's vague, and essentially meaningless until it is defined. Just get two believers talking and see how long it lasts before they start disagreeing about the nature and properties of the thing they both claim to worship.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#29  Postby Bribase » Jan 18, 2011 2:07 am

the mouse wrote:
CookieJon wrote:
Not really, for then the question would be "do you believe in a higher power?", not "do you believe in captial-G God?"

Do you see?


No, the terms are interchangeable. Anyone who believes in a higher power, believes in God, or in other words God = higher power.


Nonsense

We can easily verify the existence of powers higher than ourselves. The energies attained within suns, supernovae and close to the event horizons of black holes are many times what the combined abilities of what homo sapiens can achieve at present.

GodHigher power

The term higher power is far too nebulous of a term for anyone to understand what you are talking about if it is in referrence to a god.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#30  Postby Skinny Puppy » Jan 18, 2011 2:08 am

It’s with a heavy heart that I must say…
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#31  Postby CookieJon » Jan 18, 2011 2:13 am

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
CookieJon wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:There is such a thing as agnostic theism. You don't have to choose a god to believe that there is one.


Yes, I've conceded that.

I just wonder how you derive strength from it if you know absolutely nothing about it, that's all.


The problem is you are trying to draw a line from one to the other through logic. Faith is delusional not logical and does not require explanation.


Yes, yes... but faith in what!? If it gives you strength, as the OP says, then surely you must have some idea of its nature. There are more than a few gods who would make me decidedly nervous - if I believed in them!

The OP must have some idea of the nature/characteristics of this particular god he believes in, without necessarily knowing his name.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#32  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 18, 2011 2:13 am

fastonez wrote:I'm not saying that you should believe in god, but for me, it helps me a lot in certain situations where I need to be strong. A lot of challenges in life can be handled with the right mindset and a belief in god is an example of a mindset which can be of benefit.

I wondered if other theists here (where are you?) could relate to that.



I believe in the fairies at the bottom of my garden. I'm not saying you should, but it's certainly beneficial. Whenever life gets a bit tough, I just head on down to the bottom of my garden. Without believing in them, I wouldn't be able to handle my life. Believing in fairies in the bottom of one's garden is indicative of a healthy mindset.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#33  Postby Ohnhai » Jan 18, 2011 2:15 am

the mouse wrote:
CookieJon wrote:
Not really, for then the question would be "do you believe in a higher power?", not "do you believe in captial-G God?"

Do you see?


No, the terms are interchangeable. Anyone who believes in a higher power, believes in God, or in other words God = higher power.


God (note the capital) is normally reserved to mean the Christian god (note the lack of), and while God may be a 'higher power' it does not follow that 'higher power' = God.

Also while any god (pay attention to those capitals) may be a 'higher power', a 'higher power' may not necessarily be a god.

The terms are not interchangeable, and neither is 'God' and 'god'. One is the one is the actual name of a specific deity (the Christian one) the other is a descriptive noun that is used for any deity. (the Greeks had many gods, their god of war was Aries)

In the OP the word 'god' is used, not 'God'. thus it is perfectly acceptable to expect the poster to clarify what deity they are referring to. Is it God, Aries, the FSM, Osiris, Mithras? And so on.

If the OP meant 'god' in the sense of a un-defined higher power that no one can define then he/she should state that.

but to just insist on 'god' with out further clarification does render the meaning of the OP meaningless.

So Fastonez...

Did you actually mean 'God' when you typed 'god'?
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#34  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 18, 2011 2:15 am

the mouse wrote:
Goldenmane wrote: And here we run into the problem of non-rigorous thought.


It has nothing to do with rigorous thought, and all to do with language. A number of our newly minted atheist have an unfamiliarity with the word "God". The poster said that he believes in a higher power that gives him comfort, an atheist who is familiar with the vocabulary should have asked how does this God/Higher power give him comfort, and from such question one would garner more about the nature of this higher power that he believes in.


No, he quite clearly said that simply believing in it was sufficient to be of benefit. Its actual existence is not required, just the belief.
Last edited by Spearthrower on Jan 18, 2011 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#35  Postby CookieJon » Jan 18, 2011 2:15 am

the mouse wrote:The poster said that he believes in a higher power that gives him comfort.


No he didn't!
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#36  Postby Oldskeptic » Jan 18, 2011 2:15 am

the mouse wrote:
Goldenmane wrote: And here we run into the problem of non-rigorous thought.


It has nothing to do with rigorous thought, and all to do with language. A number of our newly minted atheist have an unfamiliarity with the word "God". The poster said that he believes in a higher power that gives him comfort, an atheist who is familiar with the vocabulary should have asked how does this God/Higher power give him comfort, and from such question one would garner more about the nature of this higher power that he believes in.


Fastonez didn't use the term "higher power" he/she has used the word "god." "Higher power" is your contribution.

If Fastonez had used the term "higher power" then we, or at least I would be asking him/her to define or describe this higher power, but that is not the case. So, since Fastonez is a self-described believer in god it is not unreasonable for anyone to ask for some clarification about his/her beliefs.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#37  Postby NineOneFour » Jan 18, 2011 2:16 am

fastonez wrote:I'm not saying that you should believe in god, but for me, it helps me a lot in certain situations where I need to be strong. A lot of challenges in life can be handled with the right mindset and a belief in god is an example of a mindset which can be of benefit.

I wondered if other theists here (where are you?) could relate to that.


I'm not a theist, but I'd like to point out that NOT believing in God or gods helps me out a lot in certain situations.

For example, and I'm not saying this for sympathy, but I just lost my mom.

Now, if there was a divine origin to the universe, that means that either my mom was being tested by having pancreatic cancer by a sociopathic deity, or she was being punished for unknown transgressions by a sociopathic deity, or for some other reason a sociopathic deity decided to make her suffer.

You know, sincerely, if he exists, fuck that guy.

Random I can deal with. I take great comfort in that this is not a test nor a punishment. If it's random, it's okay because she wasn't singled out.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#38  Postby NineOneFour » Jan 18, 2011 2:16 am

nunnington wrote:
fastonez wrote:I have never thought of it as choosing one from a list, CookieJon, so I couldn't tell you. Are you a theist? I was hoping to have this discussion with the theists here if you don't mind :P


Hello. You've picked a strange forum to make that request, as theists are rather thin on the ground here. I'm a sort of hot and cold Christian. I think you said it helps you be strong; I was just thinking that my faith helps me be weak! I mean, helps me be vulnerable really. Surrendering to life, etc.

But I also lean towards Buddhism at times - hey, if you want consistency, consider Miracle Whip.

:yuk:

Ugh, Miracle Whip is way too sweet.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#39  Postby NineOneFour » Jan 18, 2011 2:18 am

the mouse wrote:A number of our newly minted atheist have an unfamiliarity with the word "God".


That's a load of bullshit.

Most atheists I know are more aware of god or gods and holy books than are theists.
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Re: Why believing in god helps me

#40  Postby Peter Brown » Jan 18, 2011 2:20 am

fastonez wrote:I'm not saying that you should believe in god, but for me, it helps me a lot in certain situations where I need to be strong. A lot of challenges in life can be handled with the right mindset and a belief in god is an example of a mindset which can be of benefit.

I wondered if other theists here (where are you?) could relate to that.


Strangely enough, when I decided there was no god I could still do what you say you can do believing in god. I suspect it is like remembering a feeling you can trigger the feeling. I know some people try to use thinking of pictures to trigger feelings. But do you know what is really hard to do? To imaging a smell.
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