William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

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William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#1  Postby Shrunk » Nov 30, 2017 2:43 pm

The renowned and respected philosopher has opened up another front in his ongoing war against disbelief by appearing in the Youtube video below. In it, he responds to a "meme" (which is an image accompanied by text, popular on the "internet", usually attempting to make a point thru satire or humor).

Notice the cutting edge cinematography and the use of modern "rap" music. There is even an appearance at the end by an actual Negro person, who does some of that "jive" talking they are known for. Take that, atheists!

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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#2  Postby Animavore » Nov 30, 2017 3:17 pm

No. I'm not pressing play. I'm still haunted by Christian Side Hug. Also, I'm sitting on packed, public transport. I can't inflict this on them.
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#3  Postby Blackadder » Nov 30, 2017 5:58 pm

What is the meaning of life without God, eh? That old chestnut.

It’s like asking what is the meaning of volcanos without Post-It notes?

Someone once said “there are no stupid questions”. He obviously hadn’t met Kalamity.
That credulity should be gross in proportion to the ignorance of the mind that it enslaves, is in strict consistency with the principle of human nature. - Percy Bysshe Shelley
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#4  Postby Keep It Real » Nov 30, 2017 6:39 pm

It's like rubber necking innit.
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#5  Postby Rumraket » Nov 30, 2017 7:28 pm

CraigFace03.jpg
CraigFace03.jpg (57.44 KiB) Viewed 423 times
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#6  Postby Rumraket » Nov 30, 2017 7:29 pm

Shrunk wrote:The renowned and respected philosopher has opened up another front in his ongoing war against disbelief by appearing in the Youtube video below. In it, he responds to a "meme" (which is an image accompanied by text, popular on the "internet", usually attempting to make a point thru satire or humor).

Notice the cutting edge cinematography and the use of modern "rap" music. There is even an appearance at the end by an actual Negro person, who does some of that "jive" talking they are known for. Take that, atheists!


That is the most cringeworthy shit I have seen in my life. Holy FUCK that is terrifying and painful.
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#7  Postby Cito di Pense » Nov 30, 2017 9:10 pm

I thought he was going to go for the gusto and present the Ultimate Signifiicance, but I guess WLC has given up on that one for the time being, and has switched to asking atheists to explain what they 'meme' when they say there's no Ultimate Significance. In my case, no spoons are bending. If that isn't a meme, then it's back to the drawing board for me.

If WLC or somebody like him tells me that God works in mysterious ways, I'd tell him, "So does my cat. Should I worship my cat, too?" This kind of thing only works really well when you're confronting an apologist in the flesh. They're disarmed by whimsy, but only in the flesh. Online, they can just pretend they never saw the joke, or that there is no such thing as flesh.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#8  Postby Shrunk » Nov 30, 2017 10:26 pm

Not particularly a propos, but I came across this video put up by another of Craig's fans, that shows how easily his followers are deceived. No, Hitchens was not "powned" in this exchange. Craig cluelessly pwns himself:



I've actually been following Craig's Facebook page, along with one or two other RatSkeppers, and I must say I am quite surprised and appalled by how low-information his typical follower is. I don't mean that they are just ignorant about things like evolution and cosmology. Many of them don't even understand basic philosophical concepts such as the difference between the validity and soundness of an argument. The great man himself, sadly, never puts in an appearance to help his acolytes out. They're left to flounder on their own.
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#9  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 01, 2017 9:55 am

Shrunk wrote:Not particularly a propos, but I came across this video put up by another of Craig's fans, that shows how easily his followers are deceived. No, Hitchens was not "powned" in this exchange. Craig cluelessly pwns himself:



I've actually been following Craig's Facebook page, along with one or two other RatSkeppers, and I must say I am quite surprised and appalled by how low-information his typical follower is. I don't mean that they are just ignorant about things like evolution and cosmology. Many of them don't even understand basic philosophical concepts such as the difference between the validity and soundness of an argument. The great man himself, sadly, never puts in an appearance to help his acolytes out. They're left to flounder on their own.

They also don't understand a lot of the basic logical fallacies.
And when you point one out, they'll often try to defend it by first denying it and then 'clarifying' their argument which still results in said fallacy.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#10  Postby Animavore » Dec 01, 2017 10:42 am

Lol. Craig says that atheists can't follow evidence to it's logical conclusion because they start at a premise.

EDIT; That constant autocorrect my phone does ^ is getting really annoying now.
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#11  Postby VazScep » Dec 01, 2017 12:44 pm

I assume pretty much all atheists have already made complete peace with the ultimate pointlessness of existence, and know to stress "ultimate". They might even bring it up every so often in order to say that we should focus on what's *really* important, the little things, like becoming good at baseball.

It reminds me of people whining about the problem of evil from the other side, as if they expect a Christian to suddenly finally notice and go "oh shit! I never noticed all this bloody evil lying around. That's my faith done."
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#12  Postby Rumraket » Dec 01, 2017 1:05 pm

VazScep wrote:I assume pretty much all atheists have already made complete peace with the ultimate pointlessness of existence, and know to stress "ultimate". They might even bring it up every so often in order to say that we should focus on what's *really* important, the little things, like becoming good at baseball.

It reminds me of people whining about the problem of evil from the other side, as if they expect a Christian to suddenly finally notice and go "oh shit! I never noticed all this bloody evil lying around. That's my faith done."

:this:
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#13  Postby Rumraket » Dec 01, 2017 1:09 pm

What I don't understand is, in what way the lack of an "ultimate" significance, is an argument for God's existence.
It would be emotionally unpleasant if it was so. Yes, and? The world isn't dictated by how you feel.

It seems to me the "argument" can be stated this way:
There is an unpleasant fact about the world (that I will one day die and my life will not have an eternal significance), but if God existed there wouldn't be such a fact. Therefore: God exists!

Which can be basically boiled down: I don't like it so it can't be true.

None of those are valid arguments.
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#14  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 01, 2017 1:50 pm

Animavore wrote:Lol. Craig says that atheists can't follow evidence to it's logical conclusion because they start at a premise.

EDIT; That constant autocorrect my phone does ^ is getting really annoying now.

Yes, that's another thing Craig is dishonest about. He denies being a presuppositionalist and decries the concept. Eventhough most if not all of his arguments are presuppositionalist in nature.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#15  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 02, 2017 1:12 pm

I suspect that people tend to make their own reasons for existence, in the form of having a goal in life - something they really want to achieve, but that is not easy to do. It might be baseball expertise, but it could be almost anything. Usually it would be harmless to anyone else, although it can also be dangerous, such as a desire on the part of a politician to exterminate an entire ethnic group!
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#16  Postby Shrunk » Dec 02, 2017 7:49 pm

Rumraket wrote:What I don't understand is, in what way the lack of an "ultimate" significance, is an argument for God's existence.
It would be emotionally unpleasant if it was so. Yes, and? The world isn't dictated by how you feel.

It seems to me the "argument" can be stated this way:
There is an unpleasant fact about the world (that I will one day die and my life will not have an eternal significance), but if God existed there wouldn't be such a fact. Therefore: God exists!

Which can be basically boiled down: I don't like it so it can't be true.

None of those are valid arguments.


Also, how does the existence of God suddenly impart existence with "ultimate significance"? What is that, even?
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#17  Postby Matt_B » Dec 02, 2017 9:01 pm

Shrunk wrote:
Rumraket wrote:What I don't understand is, in what way the lack of an "ultimate" significance, is an argument for God's existence.
It would be emotionally unpleasant if it was so. Yes, and? The world isn't dictated by how you feel.

It seems to me the "argument" can be stated this way:
There is an unpleasant fact about the world (that I will one day die and my life will not have an eternal significance), but if God existed there wouldn't be such a fact. Therefore: God exists!

Which can be basically boiled down: I don't like it so it can't be true.

None of those are valid arguments.


Also, how does the existence of God suddenly impart existence with "ultimate significance"? What is that, even?


It doesn't. It just gives the impression that there's someone for people to pass the buck to.
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#18  Postby Thommo » Dec 02, 2017 9:22 pm

I think loosely speaking you could take "ultimate significance" or "ultimate purpose" as being the idea that there will never be a time at which that significance or purpose is lost.

So in a hundred million years when nobody remembers me or the things I cared about the significance of whether I enjoyed spending time with friends or loved ones will be lost, that information will no longer exist, but if I existed eternally in heaven then the meaning of those relationships would endure.

I think it's fair to say that Christian theology, if correct would mean that such a thing existed. Furthermore one would also have been born for a purpose, albeit the purpose of existing to honour and glory God isn't one I find particularly reassuring, personally speaking.

As far as its weight as an argument goes I'd agree that I don't think it has any, because whilst I suspect that the idea runs that people believe their life does have a purpose and ultimate significance and that since this is not the case if there is no god then they must therefore believe in god, all that actually does is replace one presupposition (the existence of god) with another (the existence of ultimate significance).
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#19  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 02, 2017 10:09 pm

Thommo wrote:I think loosely speaking you could take "ultimate significance" or "ultimate purpose" as being the idea that there will never be a time at which that significance or purpose is lost.

So in a hundred million years when nobody remembers me or the things I cared about the significance of whether I enjoyed spending time with friends or loved ones will be lost, that information will no longer exist, but if I existed eternally in heaven then the meaning of those relationships would endure.

I think it's fair to say that Christian theology, if correct would mean that such a thing existed. Furthermore one would also have been born for a purpose, albeit the purpose of existing to honour and glory God isn't one I find particularly reassuring, personally speaking.

As far as its weight as an argument goes I'd agree that I don't think it has any, because whilst I suspect that the idea runs that people believe their life does have a purpose and ultimate significance and that since this is not the case if there is no god then they must therefore believe in god, all that actually does is replace one presupposition (the existence of god) with another (the existence of ultimate significance).

The thing is, most Christians that use this purpose argument also call it an objective purpose. However if it's a purpose god made up, it's by definition subjective.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: William Lane Craig goes for the youth market

#20  Postby Fallible » Dec 03, 2017 9:40 am

The same as when they talk about 'objective morality' coming from God, they don't realise that that is the definition of subjective morality - one entity's view of morality.
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