alta wrote::roll: It helps to get a handle on what worship actually is ... — Bottom line: That which we call worship is not real, regardless of how fervently people do the behavior called worshiping. Real worship is not a choice and is not actually something we do, but is the reality of being that infiniteness which we are.

alta wrote::roll: It helps to get a handle on what worship actually is (regardless of what it is said to be or defined as). Worship as we think of it is applying preferential priority of attention offered, given, allowed (however, that is not true attention). — Worship as we think of it only exists within the world of time and time-based experience. It has no place in eternity, for there is no division there (which is actually "here"...beneath perception) in order to mark time. — The most common practice of worship is found in religion (surprise! lol). Unfortunately, the collection of worshipers who proclaim "love for God" as the focus of their worship, are not worshiping God, but are worshiping a variable collage of concepts in their minds as though these were God, and calling that God without realizing this is what they are doing. — So okay, crazy question idea...What is God? It helps to get a handle on this as well (regardless, etc.). While there is no monotheistic "man up there, horribly powerful and over all" God as widely believed, there is that which is in and through all, as that all (caveat: what we perceive around us is not that "all", but is instead mentally created objects and their relationships in perception). Big deal!!! What is that? What they heck does that mean? Well, it is reality which is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. It is what we are, unconditionally and without exception (caveat: what we are is not necessarily what we think we are). That which is real is everywhere and is that "everywhere place" as one place...being omnipresently so as that which it is (that which we are). That which IS all, knows itself (fundamental awareness) and being total is therefore omniscient. That knowledge is not vast or complex, but is simple, for quantitative complexity does not exist in our reality. That which is both omnipresent and omniscient, in the wholeness of its limitless totality, is therefore also undivided and hence unassailable. Being the only all there is, whatever power it has is vested in what it is (rather than some separate function), and is the only power anywhere (which is everywhere)...or in other words, omnipotence. (caveat: power is not "power over others" because in the reality of eternity there are no literal "others"...therefore power is peace, being over none and having none over it, there being no boundaries with which to determine such relationship. — As people worship their conceptualizations they call God (in so many forms), they are worshiping nothing, because their mental abstractions do not literally exist. That is so even if they have mass visions, visitations, supernatural happenings, and other phenomena involved. It is not possible to literally worship nothing...it makes no sense. And that is why the alleged "worship" we see going on around us seems so senseless...because it is senseless and unfounded. The only thing (which is not a thing per se) one can worship is that which is real. If it isn't real, how would one worship it? Only in their belief-burdened mind. One can, and basically everyone does worship reality. The problem is that for the most part these people have no idea what reality is, what worship is, or what any of this means. Why? Because they've been conditioned by belief systems from the cradle up since time immemorial, and the interplay of the concepts involved in those beliefs exacerbate the natural level of conflict (i.e.-positive/negative like a battery). This occurs because they are ignoring reality and their (hidden) worship of it (or attention to it). They choose to look upon the world they've created (and blamed on some "separate God" concept), with all its excitement, positive and negative. That choice is their worship of this world and everything in it (including what they abhor)...except that this worship is not truly worship. Instead, it is pseudo-attention. They are perceiving this world and their experiences in it in time rather than seeing it in eternity (because it does not literally exist in eternity). True worship is simply true attention, which is integral to omniscience. It is not partial or preferential, and cannot be made to become that. True worship, and thus true whole attention that is not warped into thinking and concepts, is ongoing knowledge of one's infinite reality. That knowledge (omniscience) is literally one with true, whole attention...and thus true worship is precisely the same as that which is worshiped (given whole attention). It is simply being that omniscient one which you/we are. There is no separation between worship and worshiper, and that is oneness in eternity. Here in the world of created appearances and experiences, oneness is not seen because the physical and mental senses cannot see. In eternity, worship is simply one way to attempt to look at what "being" is and devise a linguistic way to talk about it. In this world, true worship is subducted beneath our belief systems and hidden away...and mentally replaced with pseudo-worship (pseudo-attention or perception). — Bottom line: That which we call worship is not real, regardless of how fervently people do the behavior called worshiping. Real worship is not a choice and is not actually something we do, but is the reality of being that infiniteness which we are.

alta wrote::roll: It helps to get a handle on what worship actually is (regardless of what it is said to be or defined as). Worship as we think of it is applying preferential priority of attention offered, given, allowed (however, that is not true attention). — Worship as we think of it only exists within the world of time and time-based experience. It has no place in eternity, for there is no division there (which is actually "here"...beneath perception) in order to mark time. — The most common practice of worship is found in religion (surprise! lol). Unfortunately, the collection of worshipers who proclaim "love for God" as the focus of their worship, are not worshiping God, but are worshiping a variable collage of concepts in their minds as though these were God, and calling that God without realizing this is what they are doing. — So okay, crazy question idea...What is God? It helps to get a handle on this as well (regardless, etc.). While there is no monotheistic "man up there, horribly powerful and over all" God as widely believed, there is that which is in and through all, as that all (caveat: what we perceive around us is not that "all", but is instead mentally created objects and their relationships in perception). Big deal!!! What is that? What they heck does that mean? Well, it is reality which is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. It is what we are, unconditionally and without exception (caveat: what we are is not necessarily what we think we are). That which is real is everywhere and is that "everywhere place" as one place...being omnipresently so as that which it is (that which we are). That which IS all, knows itself (fundamental awareness) and being total is therefore omniscient. That knowledge is not vast or complex, but is simple, for quantitative complexity does not exist in our reality. That which is both omnipresent and omniscient, in the wholeness of its limitless totality, is therefore also undivided and hence unassailable. Being the only all there is, whatever power it has is vested in what it is (rather than some separate function), and is the only power anywhere (which is everywhere)...or in other words, omnipotence. (caveat: power is not "power over others" because in the reality of eternity there are no literal "others"...therefore power is peace, being over none and having none over it, there being no boundaries with which to determine such relationship. — As people worship their conceptualizations they call God (in so many forms), they are worshiping nothing, because their mental abstractions do not literally exist. That is so even if they have mass visions, visitations, supernatural happenings, and other phenomena involved. It is not possible to literally worship nothing...it makes no sense. And that is why the alleged "worship" we see going on around us seems so senseless...because it is senseless and unfounded. The only thing (which is not a thing per se) one can worship is that which is real. If it isn't real, how would one worship it? Only in their belief-burdened mind. One can, and basically everyone does worship reality. The problem is that for the most part these people have no idea what reality is, what worship is, or what any of this means. Why? Because they've been conditioned by belief systems from the cradle up since time immemorial, and the interplay of the concepts involved in those beliefs exacerbate the natural level of conflict (i.e.-positive/negative like a battery). This occurs because they are ignoring reality and their (hidden) worship of it (or attention to it). They choose to look upon the world they've created (and blamed on some "separate God" concept), with all its excitement, positive and negative. That choice is their worship of this world and everything in it (including what they abhor)...except that this worship is not truly worship. Instead, it is pseudo-attention. They are perceiving this world and their experiences in it in time rather than seeing it in eternity (because it does not literally exist in eternity). True worship is simply true attention, which is integral to omniscience. It is not partial or preferential, and cannot be made to become that. True worship, and thus true whole attention that is not warped into thinking and concepts, is ongoing knowledge of one's infinite reality. That knowledge (omniscience) is literally one with true, whole attention...and thus true worship is precisely the same as that which is worshiped (given whole attention). It is simply being that omniscient one which you/we are. There is no separation between worship and worshiper, and that is oneness in eternity. Here in the world of created appearances and experiences, oneness is not seen because the physical and mental senses cannot see. In eternity, worship is simply one way to attempt to look at what "being" is and devise a linguistic way to talk about it. In this world, true worship is subducted beneath our belief systems and hidden away...and mentally replaced with pseudo-worship (pseudo-attention or perception). — Bottom line: That which we call worship is not real, regardless of how fervently people do the behavior called worshiping. Real worship is not a choice and is not actually something we do, but is the reality of being that infiniteness which we are.

quas wrote:

Calilasseia wrote:In short, it's arse-kissing elevated to an art form.

It's self-preservation.
If you don't do it, you are going to hell.

Spearthrower wrote:It's a great scam, and I suppose you could say that worship, from within this clerical parasitism paradigm, is not at all dissimilar from the thing that a cordyceps fungus does to an ant, less some fruiting bodies exploding out the back of your head.

Blackadder wrote:I wonder (and this is pure uninformed speculation on my part) whether it isn’t misdirected evolved survival behaviour? A bit like seeing ghosts is a misdirected expression of our highly evolved ability to recognise predators from scant visual information.

Consider this: early humans lived in small groups, quite possibly headed up by an Alpha male. For the non-Alpha males, survival would depend on accepting and demonstrating their subjugation to the Alpha male, otherwise he would see them as rivals and kill them or drive them out.

As this mode of living became disused, perhaps the need for subjugation remained. And what better object before which to practice self abasement than the Alpha-est of Alpha males, an angry god who controls daylight, weather, disease and crops? You could see how the constant grovelling and begging for favours would satisfy an ancient and primitive instinct.

Clive Durdle wrote:Durkheim:-)

Ironclad wrote:If you could all send me just one dollar, little Jimmy will be cured of his gammy leg. Heil Jesus!