AlphaGo Defeats World's Best Human Player

AI Go Program Performs Better Than Expected

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Re: AlphaGo Defeats World's Best Human Player

#41  Postby VazScep » Sep 05, 2017 5:15 pm

GrahamH wrote:
VazScep wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
tuco wrote:That seems like a question for philosophy. Unless convinced otherwise, I will go with lets say AI scientists who consider such environment suitable for stated reasons. Ultimately, the point of such exercise is imo for AI to reach set goal(s). If we take the war element out, we are left with, well, managing economy.


I doubt the scientists give that much thought to such ethical or philosophical issues of unintended consequences

Maybe Elon Musk and Stephen hawking have a point

If AI is only good for war games and financial trading we would be better without it.
This sort of AI is good for any sort of problem that amounts to numerical optimisation, such as the logistics of food distribution or town planning, standard problems for which we generally get a good bang for the buck with machine learning.

It happens that Chess and Go were classic AI problems, and so there was a lot of kudos in beating all humans at them. Computer games are a trivial source of AI problems, since solving games is always an AI problem. Forget the war aspect. A non-cooperative game (which is the vast majority of games) can always be described in terms of warfare. This is a case of having an all two powerful metaphor.

Another reason games are targeted is because they provide a closed environment for a learning machine: all the information is there, and the game is formally specified.


I guess it would be more comforting for the AI to be trained on something other than zero-sum games because if we find ourselves in a zero-sum game with advanced AI we could well be screwed.
I'm not concerned with the war aspect as such, more that future AI may carry forward aspect of playing to win into new interactions.

Someone once speculated that setting a goal for AI of wining as many games of chess as possible could have dire unforeseen consequences if the AI took over as much computing resource as possible in order to meet that goal. Don't set a goal of eliminating human suffering in case an AI finds and implements the obvious (final) solution!
That's the paperclip problem. Maximise paperclip production -> exterminate all life and turn over the land to paperclip factories.

But deep learning isn't set up that way. I can see potential dangers at throwing AIs at problems such as maximising resources on a computer network, only because modern computer networks are hopelessly fragile and full of exploitable holes that an AI might open. But that's a problem with computer security that I've moaned about elsewhere, and I consider it a clusterfuck even without the AIs. I can see the same issues when throwing AIs into the space of smart contracts and tax systems. That stuff needs to be locked down and as formally specified as Chess before we start running decent AI at it.
Here we go again. First, we discover recursion.
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Re: AlphaGo Defeats World's Best Human Player

#42  Postby tuco » Sep 05, 2017 7:15 pm

Not like you care(?) but that is the reason for being alarmed by AI then? Not because its somehow inherently dangerous, but because it can find exploits easier and faster than all humans on the planet can. It was not obvious to me before. So I guess that answers this question.
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Re: AlphaGo Defeats World's Best Human Player

#43  Postby VazScep » Sep 05, 2017 8:41 pm

Yes. That has always been my concern with AI: it finds unexpected solutions. And in cases such as insecure networks and vulnerable code, the unexpected solutions are mostly vulnerabilities. They're unexpected precisely because it was the human programmer who fucked up by not expecting them or, worse, by blithely coding them in (like all other programmers in existence, I am as far from innocent of this crime as anyone)
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Re: AlphaGo Defeats World's Best Human Player

#44  Postby minininja » Oct 18, 2017 6:44 pm

So the new version, after being told nothing but the rules of Go, taught itself enough in three days to beat the previous version 100 games to 0. :shock:

'It's able to create knowledge itself': Google unveils AI that learns on its own

Google’s artificial intelligence group, DeepMind, has unveiled the latest incarnation of its Go-playing program, AlphaGo – an AI so powerful that it derived thousands of years of human knowledge of the game before inventing better moves of its own, all in the space of three days.

Named AlphaGo Zero, the AI program has been hailed as a major advance because it mastered the ancient Chinese board game from scratch, and with no human help beyond being told the rules. In games against the 2015 version, which famously beat Lee Sedol, the South Korean grandmaster, AlphaGo Zero won 100 to 0.

The feat marks a milestone on the road to general-purpose AIs that can do more than thrash humans at board games. Because AlphaGo Zero learns on its own from a blank slate, its talents can now be turned to a host of real-world problems.

At DeepMind, which is based in London, AlphaGo Zero is working out how proteins fold, a massive scientific challenge that could give drug discovery a sorely needed shot in the arm.


Please do not plug that thing into the internet.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: AlphaGo Defeats World's Best Human Player

#45  Postby I'm With Stupid » Oct 19, 2017 10:58 am

Yeah, but can it win at Monopoly?
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Re: AlphaGo Defeats World's Best Human Player

#46  Postby minininja » Oct 19, 2017 2:31 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:Yeah, but can it win at Monopoly?

Tell it the rules and give it a day to think about them.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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