American power outlets.

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Re: American power outlets.

#41  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jul 27, 2017 5:45 pm

Briton wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:British plugs are far too big. It was not long ago you had to fit all your plugs yourself in Britain. Moulded plugs are not that long on the market there. I have never known anything else here. All appliances are sold with a moulded plug and no fuse! Damn nuisance. We use in UK-English RCD / Residual-current device. In US-English GFCI / Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter.


WTF as has the fact that decades ago appliances would sometimes be sold without a plug fitted (at a time when the conversion from round to square plugs was still happening) got to do with anything ? The difference in size is insignificant to say the least.

The 'damn nuisance' is an important safety device lacking in European systems. RCD's protect against earth leakage not over current and will not necessarily protect the flex. In a modern British system there will almost certainly be RCD protection of the circuit as well as a Miniature Circuit Breaker (MCB).


They are massive plugs FFS. That was not decades ago. I had to fit plugs on my mum's appliances in the 90's. We dont need it as we dont have ring systems. So you are catching up then. Fuses were a pain and how many were replaced by silver from a fag packet or a handy bit of wire? Safe? Bloody lethal.
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Re: American power outlets.

#42  Postby Briton » Jul 28, 2017 5:50 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Briton wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:British plugs are far too big. It was not long ago you had to fit all your plugs yourself in Britain. Moulded plugs are not that long on the market there. I have never known anything else here. All appliances are sold with a moulded plug and no fuse! Damn nuisance. We use in UK-English RCD / Residual-current device. In US-English GFCI / Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter.


WTF as has the fact that decades ago appliances would sometimes be sold without a plug fitted (at a time when the conversion from round to square plugs was still happening) got to do with anything ? The difference in size is insignificant to say the least.

The 'damn nuisance' is an important safety device lacking in European systems. RCD's protect against earth leakage not over current and will not necessarily protect the flex. In a modern British system there will almost certainly be RCD protection of the circuit as well as a Miniature Circuit Breaker (MCB).


They are massive plugs FFS. That was not decades ago. I had to fit plugs on my mum's appliances in the 90's. We dont need it as we dont have ring systems. So you are catching up then. Fuses were a pain and how many were replaced by silver from a fag packet or a handy bit of wire? Safe? Bloody lethal.


I think you are lying but even so, the 90's was decades ago and is totally irrelevant. Even if fuses were replaced with silver paper (total bollocks of course) it would still be safer than no fuse at all. Even in a radial system, without a fuse at the outlet the flex is often unprotected from overload. If there's one criticism of the British system it's that it's OTT safety. As with your RCD comment, you display your ignorance that is no doubt driven by your usual bitter prejudice.
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Re: American power outlets.

#43  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jul 28, 2017 7:32 am

I am not lying. Fuses were brought into the British system because of ring systems. The whole thing could overload. It is not bollocks. Even mains fuses that often blew were replaced by wire.

If it was so safe why was it it not duplicated by other countries? No other country has those massive cumbersome plugs or those stupid sockets. Why? With proper design they are not required. Dont say the British system is the best in world. If it was it would be a standard which it is certainly not.
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Re: American power outlets.

#44  Postby Matt_B » Jul 28, 2017 7:59 am

UK appliances have come with plugs since 1992. The reason they didn't before then was to accommodate houses who still had the pre-1945 sockets, of which there were several varieties.

Indeed, I'd think that having to accommodate a variety of standards would be the main reason why countries would be reticent to change their plugs. Modern safety features, notably surge protectors and circuit breakers, have rendered fuses obsolete in any case. When was the last time you had to replace a blown one?

Still, UK plugs are a pretty good design for not falling out of the socket at the slightest tug at least.
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Re: American power outlets.

#45  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jul 28, 2017 8:31 am

Matt_B wrote:UK appliances have come with plugs since 1992. The reason they didn't before then was to accommodate houses who still had the pre-1945 sockets, of which there were several varieties.

Indeed, I'd think that having to accommodate a variety of standards would be the main reason why countries would be reticent to change their plugs. Modern safety features, notably surge protectors and circuit breakers, have rendered fuses obsolete in any case. When was the last time you had to replace a blown one?

Still, UK plugs are a pretty good design for not falling out of the socket at the slightest tug at least.


I cant remember really those and they were big the 15amp plugs. But here they have never had fuses in plugs. The system was always in groups. These were the fuses for the group:

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Our modern version holds the plug well although when I came here not many plugs were earthed. Usually just the kitchen. Bathrooms did not have plugs.

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Is Britain going to drop fused plugs as they are hardly needed these days?

In new houses these are becoming standard. I hope for them the USB standard will be maintained.

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Re: American power outlets.

#46  Postby Nicko » Jul 28, 2017 1:13 pm

Actually never encountered this "plug falling out of socket" problem people here speak of. Might it be the diagonal upper prongs (obviously, in a non-grounded device, these are the only two prongs on the plug)?
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Re: American power outlets.

#47  Postby zulumoose » Jul 28, 2017 1:17 pm

Nicko wrote:Actually never encountered this "plug falling out of socket" problem people here speak of. Might it be the diagonal upper prongs (obviously, in a non-grounded device, these are the only two prongs on the plug)?


I think the complaint is largely in reference to the American version, with the flat pins all aligned the same way, to ensure as much wobble as it is possible to design into the system.
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Re: American power outlets.

#48  Postby Nicko » Jul 28, 2017 1:25 pm

zulumoose wrote:
Nicko wrote:Actually never encountered this "plug falling out of socket" problem people here speak of. Might it be the diagonal upper prongs (obviously, in a non-grounded device, these are the only two prongs on the plug)?


I think the complaint is largely in reference to the American version, with the flat pins all aligned the same way, to ensure as much wobble as it is possible to design into the system.


Yeah, that's what I thought.

Having the alignment of the top two pins be perpendicular rather than parallel seems to work better in this respect.
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Re: American power outlets.

#49  Postby Matt_B » Jul 28, 2017 1:35 pm

zulumoose wrote:
Nicko wrote:Actually never encountered this "plug falling out of socket" problem people here speak of. Might it be the diagonal upper prongs (obviously, in a non-grounded device, these are the only two prongs on the plug)?


I think the complaint is largely in reference to the American version, with the flat pins all aligned the same way, to ensure as much wobble as it is possible to design into the system.


I've had it with Australian plugs too, particularly the two pin versions. It's mainly a problem with devices where the transformer has a built in plug and you end up with something that's rather bulky and easily dislodged when knocked. I can't say it happens very often, but having grown up used to UK plugs where it doesn't happen at all, it's an annoyance to me when it does.
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Re: American power outlets.

#50  Postby I'm With Stupid » Jul 29, 2017 9:18 am

Nicko wrote:Actually never encountered this "plug falling out of socket" problem people here speak of. Might it be the diagonal upper prongs (obviously, in a non-grounded device, these are the only two prongs on the plug)?

I definitely had in it Vietnam, which uses French sockets, but in most cases, the older versions. It's not so much literally falling out of the socket, it's just not making a proper connection, so sparking when you first plug something in. I even had a plug with plastic around the prongs and the plastic melted because of the poor connection causing electricity to jump. And as I said earlier, you then have the cheap extension leads where your plug is often plugged in vertically and they are terrible for making a decent connection.
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Re: American power outlets.

#51  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 29, 2017 11:11 am

I'm With Stupid wrote:
Nicko wrote:Actually never encountered this "plug falling out of socket" problem people here speak of. Might it be the diagonal upper prongs (obviously, in a non-grounded device, these are the only two prongs on the plug)?

I definitely had in it Vietnam, which uses French sockets, but in most cases, the older versions. It's not so much literally falling out of the socket, it's just not making a proper connection, so sparking when you first plug something in. I even had a plug with plastic around the prongs and the plastic melted because of the poor connection causing electricity to jump. And as I said earlier, you then have the cheap extension leads where your plug is often plugged in vertically and they are terrible for making a decent connection.

I had the same general problem in the Netherlands, where mains plugs and adaptors were all made in China, and apparently not subject to quality control by the importers.
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Re: American power outlets.

#52  Postby Paul1 » Aug 07, 2017 2:00 pm

Nicko wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:British plugs are far too big.


That's something you don't hear too often.

Ay-OH!


Scot Dutchy wrote:I had to fit plugs on my mum's appliances in the 90's. We dont need it as we dont have ring systems. So you are catching up then. Fuses were a pain and how many were replaced by silver from a fag packet or a handy bit of wire? Safe? Bloody lethal.

Three stacked paper clips is my choice of inadvisable fuse alternatives.
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Re: American power outlets.

#53  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 07, 2017 3:33 pm

Yep another standard choice.
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American power outlets.

#54  Postby The_Metatron » Aug 07, 2017 4:42 pm

The house where I grew up had a fuse box with the old North American Edison base fuses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(electrical)#Fuse_boxes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(electrical)#North_America

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(electrical)#North_America

The field expedient was to put a penny into the socket and hold it in with the blown fuse. A penny is still a fuse, of course. Just one with many hundreds of amperes capacity before it opened. More than house wiring. Bad idea.


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Re: American power outlets.

#55  Postby theropod » Aug 07, 2017 7:42 pm

The_Metatron wrote:The house where I grew up had a fuse box with the old North American Edison base fuses. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuse_(electrical)#North_America

The field expedient was to put a penny into the socket and hold it in with the blown fuse. A penny is still a fuse, of course. Just one with many hundreds of amperes capacity before it opened. More than house wiring. Bad idea.


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Standard light bulbs fit those old style fuse sockets.

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Re: American power outlets.

#56  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 08, 2017 11:59 am

Why did Britain use the bayonet bulb fitting? All Europe has screw fittings. A bloody nuisance when moving house.
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