Another victim of the scientific human enterprize or anti-ma

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Re: Another victim of the scientific human enterprize or anti-ma

#21  Postby Keep It Real » Aug 03, 2019 3:52 pm

aufbahrung wrote:
Perhaps the way science is progressing right now, whilst not being nazi science, is actually contributing to various woes from stress induced suicide all the way up to climate change (with so many scientists & engineers working or being trained to work for the petro-chemical industry..)...


The misappropriation of science in the quest for material greed is a function of economics and psychology, and whilst both topics are science (IMO), the folly of seeking endless economic growth in a dispiriting rat race and lusting after gold plated private jets would be examples of problems which those sciences should be used to address, so far from science being the problem RE climate change/depression etc it is in fact our best and frankly only hope of solving those problems, along with other sciences homing in on the problems. Basically, you really couldn't have it more arse backwards.

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Re: Another victim of the scientific human enterprize or anti-ma

#22  Postby SafeAsMilk » Aug 03, 2019 10:28 pm

Keep It Real wrote:so far from science being the problem RE climate change/depression etc it is in fact our best and frankly only hope of solving those problems

That's about the long and the short of it.
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Re: Another victim of the scientific human enterprize or anti-ma

#23  Postby laklak » Aug 04, 2019 4:04 am

Well, that or malaribola.
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Re: Another victim of the scientific human enterprize or anti-ma

#24  Postby aufbahrung » Aug 04, 2019 4:27 am

Never suggested it was not a scientific issue that should be examined without scientific principles. The answer might be a all encompassing new science council or body or union that attends to the welfare or emotional abuse of any involved in the human scientific project? A sort of guardian priesthood of the science community like in Dune. (Dune was a long time ago for me, it might have been some book or short story by Barrington J Bayley.)
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Re: Another victim of the scientific human enterprize or anti-ma

#25  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 04, 2019 4:32 am

aufbahrung wrote:Never suggested it was not a scientific issue that should be examined without scientific principles.



Yes, that's exactly the problem: it's not a scientific issue any more than the prevalence of hammer usage in homicides. It's a political one, it's a societal one.
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Re: Another victim of the scientific human enterprize or anti-ma

#26  Postby aufbahrung » Aug 04, 2019 5:06 am

Spearthrower wrote:
aufbahrung wrote:Never suggested it was not a scientific issue that should be examined without scientific principles.



Yes, that's exactly the problem: it's not a scientific issue any more than the prevalence of hammer usage in homicides. It's a political one, it's a societal one.


Yes and no, it is the aspects that are within the remit of the rationalist-secular science community I'm badly highlighting, of a much larger issue involving a system fueled by stress hormones, a quest for growth/profit etc at any cost....

And the science community is the ideal place to examine, research and experiment these various socio-economi-politi issues since you'd get the sort of co-operation from the mice in the petridish you would find hard to find in other niches of culture.
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Re: Another victim of the scientific human enterprize or anti-ma

#27  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 04, 2019 6:12 am

aufbahrung wrote:
Yes and no, it is the aspects that are within the remit of the rationalist-secular science community I'm badly highlighting,...


Can you even establish that such a thing exists or that it is representative of the scientific enterprise? What about the majority of scientists who are religious? Doesn't this pertain to them?


aufbahrung wrote:... of a much larger issue involving a system fueled by stress hormones, a quest for growth/profit etc at any cost....


Growth at any cost = economics and politics, not science
Profit at any cost = business, not science

Of course, science can be a political or an economic policy, but so can the arts, so can education, so can all manner of things, but that doesn't make them politics or economics.

You're misidentifying science's role, which is really just methodological knowledge acquisition. Science doesn't exist in a vacuum; it exists in a society, and just like the hammer, it's up to people and politicians to choose how to use it.

As for stress - how is this meant to be unique or even particularly prevalent in science?

You're trying to smuggle in so many different components, but none of them have been established as valid, or even appear to make sense.


aufbahrung wrote:And the science community is the ideal place to examine, research and experiment these various socio-economi-politi issues since you'd get the sort of co-operation from the mice in the petridish you would find hard to find in other niches of culture.


The science community is a bit busy doing actual science to also want to be studying economics and politics. I'd suggest that the ideal place to examine social, economic and political issues is through examining society, economics, and politics.
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