Electric car

is it in my future? Yours?

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Re: Electric car

#141  Postby jamest » Jul 05, 2016 8:17 pm

ScholasticSpastic wrote:
jamest wrote:The main problem being that if they ever do become like humans then we need programmes to mimic their diversity, irrationality, folly, stupidity, indeterminism, artistry, emotional drive, laziness (all to varying degrees, of course), etc. etc.. Only then will they be like us and be worthy of 'citizenship'. Having said that, if computers become like that then we won't need them as there's 7 billion of us right now and all we need to do to increase those numbers is procreate more.

:lol: No, I don't think we need to make more fallible computers in order for them to be good enough for citizenship. There's no rule that says an entity must have a human capacity for folly in order to be as good as a human.

You're missing the point: we'll never think of robots as being like us (worthy of fellow citizenship), unless they are like us.

And there's no rule that says we cannot eventually build something that's better than ourselves- though we would require their assistance to build them well before we got there.

'Better' in what way? The speed at which they process information? Why would that make them better than us?
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Re: Electric car

#142  Postby tuco » Jul 05, 2016 8:50 pm

I did not know you had similar fetish as I do with starting threads ;)
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Re: Electric car

#143  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Jul 05, 2016 9:20 pm

jamest wrote:
You're missing the point: we'll never think of robots as being like us (worthy of fellow citizenship), unless they are like us.

We're already on track for granting rights and protections to non-human animals that are a lot less like us than our creations are likely to be. I think there are some things that an entity will need to be capable of in order to be considered worthy of rights and protections, but I don't think they'll need to come all the way across the uncanny valley for that to happen. In fact, it may be to AI's advantage if it doesn't become too much like us. Humanoid constructed intelligences get creepy fast.

Seriously. Start a new thread if you want to talk about this.
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Re: Electric car

#144  Postby tuco » Jul 16, 2016 9:34 pm

An electric shuttle dedicated to smart mobility designed to cover short distances and predefined routes in multi-use environments

http://easymile.com/

Projects and video included.

Coming to factories and theme parks near you this August.
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Ignition point?

#145  Postby Macdoc » Oct 14, 2016 6:20 am

The electric car market is growing 10 times faster than its dirty gasoline equivalent
There will be two million electric cars on the road by the end of 2016.


Despite low oil prices, plug-in electric vehicles (EV) are charging forward worldwide, with more than 2 million expected to be on the roads by the end of 2016, according to recent market figures.
Around 312,000 plug-in electric cars were sold during the first half of 2016, according to analysts at EV Volumes — a nearly 50 percent increase over the first half of 2015.
The rise in sales is attributed to a growing Chinese market, followed by sales in Europe and the United States, where Tesla Motors Co. is now dominating the luxury sedan market, according to recent reports.


more
https://thinkprogress.org/electric-vehi ... .4hv8u2ksa
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Re: Electric car

#146  Postby Animavore » Oct 14, 2016 6:21 am

Still not cheap enough for me. I want an electric car.
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Re: Electric car

#147  Postby Macdoc » Oct 14, 2016 8:39 am

Ummm there are already long range EV'sfor less than the national average new car price

Two of the world’s leading electric vehicle (EV) producers say that they will soon deliver 200+ mile range EVs at a game-changing price of $30,000 or less — including tax incentives.
Until now, EVs have not been considered a mass-market consumer vehicle in the United States for two key reasons — high price and low range. But with battery prices continuing their unexpectedly rapid price drop, both General Motors and Tesla have announced that they can address both of those problems simultaneously in the near future. For GM, it will be the Chevy Bolt, and for Tesla, the Model 3.
“The average new car costs about $31,000, according to an analysis by Salim Morsy of Bloomberg New Energy Finance,” as BloombergBusiness reported Tuesday.


https://thinkprogress.org/game-change-t ... .yu1e7ao0k


from the article

If you are wondering how GM can you possibly offer an EV with that range at that price — while still asserting they will make a substantial profit on the car — the auto company disclosed last fall that the battery cell for the Bolt from the South Korean company LG Chem will cost just $145 per kilowatt-hour (kWh), an astounding price.
How astounding? In 2013, the International Energy Agency estimated EVs would achieve cost parity with gasoline vehicles when battery costs hit $300 per kWh of storage capacity, which the IEA said would happen by 2020. Then, last spring, a detailed analysis in Nature concluded that as of the end of 2014, “the cost of battery packs used by market-leading BEV manufacturers are even lower, at US$300 per kWh.” That study concluded:


“If costs reach as low as $150 per kilowatt hour this means that electric vehicles will probably move beyond niche applications and begin to penetrate the market more widely, leading to a potential paradigm shift in vehicle technology.”
So $145 per kWh is a paradigm-shifting, game-changing price. And GM is expecting the price to continue to drop, as it made clear in this chart:


By the way, if you are also wondering whether LG Chem is “ticked off” that GM took the unprecedented step of publicly disclosing the price it’s paying for LG’s batteries, they are.

As for the sticker price of Tesla’s Model 3, the company confirmed this week what CEO Elon Musk said last year, “When I say $35,000, I’m talking about without any credits.” The Model 3 will be priced at $35,000 — before federal and state tax credits are applied. The company will start taking preorders in March and is promising delivery in fall of 2017. That said, hitting delivery times has not been Tesla’s strong suit, and some analysts believe the car won’t be available until 2018.
Even so, the rapid price drop in the cost of both batteries and long-range EVs is likely to change the game for their sales, as this analysis by Bloomberg New Energy Finance chart shows:

Finally, the discussion here does not even consider what the Chinese will be able to achieve with their massive investment in batteries and electric cars. The Chinese are seeking to become the world leader in the production and use of both affordable batteries and EVs. Given that they achieved these goals in both solar photovoltaics and wind power, it would be unwise to bet against them.
It appears we are very near the same type of inflection point in price and performance that led to the explosion in solar PV several years ago. Since electricity remains by far the best and cheapest alternative fuel that can be made without releasing CO2 — one that is cheaper to run a car on than gasoline even at current low oil prices — this game change is good news for both consumers and the climate.


This is going come faster and cheaper
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Re: Electric car

#148  Postby Animavore » Oct 14, 2016 9:09 am

Mmm. A second hand Leaf can be picked up for just €12,500. I'd be worried about the battery life though.
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Re: Electric car

#149  Postby Macdoc » Oct 14, 2016 10:55 am

this

http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/19/3rd ... to-48-kwh/

and

The crucial piece of information: any Nissan LEAF owner may now purchase a brand new 24-kWh battery pack for a suggested retail price of just $5,499 plus installation fees and tax.


I suspect this is likely down now
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Re: Electric car

#150  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 14, 2016 10:21 pm

Goddammit, they need to standardize these fucking battery banks and make them interchangeable. Then, it would be sort of trivial to build a battery bank exchange infrastructure. Head out on the highway. Batteries getting low? Stop off and change out the pack for a charged one.

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Re: Electric car

#151  Postby OlivierK » Oct 14, 2016 11:03 pm

A Tesla Model S battery weighs over half a tonne, so I'm not sure that "trivial" will ever be the right word for swapping one out.

We're currently looking at getting our home office off-grid, and we'll have a solar setup that will be specced to deal with long blackouts during periods we're flooded in, which usually aren't very sunny. So most of the time we'll have overflow, and we're planning to use it to charge batteries for a swap-in swap-out system for both small golf-cart-style vehicles for getting around our property, and also some 12/24V powered outbuildings, such as a small riverside cabin with a small camping fridge, lights, and outdoor shower - rather than put panels on each one, we'll just run fresh batteries down there with a golf cart as required, and bring the old one back for a recharge. But that's about the scale limit for that sort of tech, I think. Much as it would be nice to swap out a car battery, and be back on the road in minutes, I think fast charging tech will get there before mechanical swap-out, unless batteries get a LOT smaller and lighter.
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Re: Electric car

#152  Postby ScholasticSpastic » Oct 15, 2016 12:16 am

OlivierK wrote: I think fast charging tech will get there before mechanical swap-out, unless batteries get a LOT smaller and lighter.

Likely, but I've seen some really promising developments in terms of power density reading Chemical and Engineering News, so I'm not sure it's time to call the race yet.
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Re: Electric car

#153  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 15, 2016 12:25 am

OlivierK wrote:A Tesla Model S battery weighs over half a tonne, so I'm not sure that "trivial" will ever be the right word for swapping one out.

We're currently looking at getting our home office off-grid, and we'll have a solar setup that will be specced to deal with long blackouts during periods we're flooded in, which usually aren't very sunny. So most of the time we'll have overflow, and we're planning to use it to charge batteries for a swap-in swap-out system for both small golf-cart-style vehicles for getting around our property, and also some 12/24V powered outbuildings, such as a small riverside cabin with a small camping fridge, lights, and outdoor shower - rather than put panels on each one, we'll just run fresh batteries down there with a golf cart as required, and bring the old one back for a recharge. But that's about the scale limit for that sort of tech, I think. Much as it would be nice to swap out a car battery, and be back on the road in minutes, I think fast charging tech will get there before mechanical swap-out, unless batteries get a LOT smaller and lighter.

Trivial. Redesign that car to accept more than one standard pile at a change.


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Re: Electric car

#154  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 15, 2016 9:24 am

There was an Israeli company with that idea and had built a net of changing stations. It went bust but I think it was too advanced at the time.
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Re: Electric car

#155  Postby Macdoc » Jan 12, 2017 10:12 pm

Image

TECHNOLOGY NEWS | Thu Jan 12, 2017 | 5:54am EST
China's anti-Teslas: cheap models drive electric car boom
Image

By Jake Spring | BEIJING
More electric cars are sold in China than in the rest of the world combined, but are mainly locally-branded models that are cheaper and have a shorter range than those offered by foreign automakers such as Tesla (TSLA.O) and Nissan (7203.T).

The Chinese-branded electric vehicle (EV) market is propped up by huge government subsidies as part of Beijing's policy to build global leadership in cleaner energy driving.



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-autoshow-china-electric-idUSKBN14V1H3
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Re: Electric car

#156  Postby Made of Stars » Jan 13, 2017 12:07 pm

Great GIF choice, macdoc.
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Re: Electric car

#157  Postby Macdoc » Jan 13, 2017 12:17 pm

One of my fav movies and she was great ...and yummy... :naughty2:

Winder if they will get to a sequel on that tho not sure where that might go
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Re: Electric car

#158  Postby JoeB » Jan 16, 2017 10:52 am

This is an interesting link. Download the pdf file and look at the executive summary (pages 4 and 5). It shows the exponential growth of EVs as well as the exponential decline in battery costs. As of 2016 electric batteries are about 2/3 cheaper to produce than they were in 2010. This means a 100kWh battery costs around $30k now instead of roughly $100k a few years ago, and the trend is continuing. The energy density of batteries in increasing as well, meaning lighter / smaller / higher capacity battery packs.

http://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication/global-ev-outlook-2016.html
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Re: Electric car

#159  Postby JoeB » Jan 16, 2017 10:56 am

The_Metatron wrote:Goddammit, they need to standardize these fucking battery banks and make them interchangeable. Then, it would be sort of trivial to build a battery bank exchange infrastructure. Head out on the highway. Batteries getting low? Stop off and change out the pack for a charged one.

Born to be wild.

Tesla tried interchangeable battery packs a while back. Turns out superchargers are more popular, and are getting more powerful, capable of charging your car in about half an hour at most.
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Re: Electric car

#160  Postby tuco » Jul 31, 2017 10:19 am

Driving Tesla’s Model 3 Changes Everything

The Model 3 still has plenty of pickup, effortlessly jumping from zero to 60 mph in 5.1 seconds in the upgraded version I test drove, which gets a stunning 310 miles on a charge. It’s nimble, comfortable, and has tight steering that’ll keep you grinning. The seats embrace you in a gentle hug that feels a bit more geared for road trip than racetrack. It’s the Model S on a diet, making up in practicality what it loses in extravagance.

And I haven’t even gotten to the good stuff yet.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... everything
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