Electric car

is it in my future? Yours?

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Re: Electric car

#221  Postby bogdan9310 » Feb 06, 2019 9:54 pm

Some say hydrogen powered cars are the future. Electric cars still pollute, but at the production stage.
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Re: Electric car

#222  Postby Macdoc » Feb 06, 2019 10:16 pm

Um so do hydrogen cars at the "production stage" but it's minor.

Are you referring to the production of electricity stage?" ....well if you are producing hydrogen from a grid powered by coal then yeah - same issue applies .....what hydrogen excels at is storing electricity as usable fuel do off peak renewable power can be stored as hydrogen. Still a ways off
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Re: Electric car

#223  Postby The_Metatron » Feb 07, 2019 1:36 am

I'm mulling the idea of electrifying my work van instead of the 6.5L diesel engine. I don't need a lot of range. 80 kilometers will do, but 150 would be better. I do not need speeds above 90 km/h.

I get some serious weight savings by removing the engine, transmission, and driveshaft, along with all of the support hardware (fuel system, cooling system, etc). I'm estimating 750 kg.

I don't think I can put together an electric drive system with the energy density of a huge tank full of diesel oil. But, I don't need the range that full fuel tank affords without refueling, either.

I'm considering using 18650 lithium cells to build my battery. I'm pretty sure this is actually what the Tesla cars use, also. Lots to learn about those cells and how to build a safe battery with them.

For the drive segment, I'd like to explore front wheel drive, perhaps using a drive motor on each wheel. Maybe. It would be a lot easier to put the motor where the existing automatic transmission is, and use the engine bay for batteries and suport hardware. The space formerly taken by the fuel tank would also be available for batteries, as well as some additional space outboard of the main chassis frame rails.

Replacements for the existing diesel driven power brakes and steering might be big problems, also.

The body of my van is already entirely aluminum, so that is as good as it is likely to get.

Many, many problems to overcome.
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Re: Electric car

#224  Postby Macdoc » Feb 07, 2019 2:25 am

Sounds like a stretch ...too little gain for the cost and distance.
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Re: Electric car

#225  Postby felltoearth » Feb 07, 2019 2:30 am

The_Metatron wrote:I'm mulling the idea of electrifying my work van instead of the 6.5L diesel engine. I don't need a lot of range. 80 kilometers will do, but 150 would be better. I do not need speeds above 90 km/h.

I get some serious weight savings by removing the engine, transmission, and driveshaft, along with all of the support hardware (fuel system, cooling system, etc). I'm estimating 750 kg.

I don't think I can put together an electric drive system with the energy density of a huge tank full of diesel oil. But, I don't need the range that full fuel tank affords without refueling, either.

I'm considering using 18650 lithium cells to build my battery. I'm pretty sure this is actually what the Tesla cars use, also. Lots to learn about those cells and how to build a safe battery with them.

For the drive segment, I'd like to explore front wheel drive, perhaps using a drive motor on each wheel. Maybe. It would be a lot easier to put the motor where the existing automatic transmission is, and use the engine bay for batteries and suport hardware. The space formerly taken by the fuel tank would also be available for batteries, as well as some additional space outboard of the main chassis frame rails.

Replacements for the existing diesel driven power brakes and steering might be big problems, also.

The body of my van is already entirely aluminum, so that is as good as it is likely to get.

Many, many problems to overcome.


A friend of mine electrified his Triumph spitfire using lithium ion batteries.

He’s up first on Dan’s Space Van

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Re: Electric car

#226  Postby laklak » Feb 07, 2019 3:23 am

That sounds like a shitload of work.
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Re: Electric car

#227  Postby felltoearth » Feb 07, 2019 3:26 am

laklak wrote:That sounds like a shitload of work.

It was a little over a year of weekends IIRC.
Confirmed. Started the project in 2014 and finished early 2015. As of 2017 he’d clocked 11,000 miles mainly driving to work from North Toronto to Mississauga. Unfortunately, in mid 2018, a van pulled out into his lane demoing it. It had to be scrapped.
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Re: Electric car

#228  Postby zulumoose » Feb 07, 2019 6:32 am

I'm considering using 18650 lithium cells to build my battery. I'm pretty sure this is actually what the Tesla cars use, also. Lots to learn about those cells and how to build a safe battery with them.


18650 is still the most energy dense and cost effective Lithium unit, but Tesla are moving to 21700 platform, so all predictions are it will take over as the dominant cell and be further developed.
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Re: Electric car

#229  Postby juju7 » Feb 07, 2019 8:24 am

zulumoose wrote:
I'm considering using 18650 lithium cells to build my battery. I'm pretty sure this is actually what the Tesla cars use, also. Lots to learn about those cells and how to build a safe battery with them.


18650 is still the most energy dense and cost effective Lithium unit, but Tesla are moving to 21700 platform, so all predictions are it will take over as the dominant cell and be further developed.


In future movies how will cars explode on crashing?
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Re: Electric car

#230  Postby Cito di Pense » Feb 07, 2019 9:21 am

laklak wrote:That sounds like a shitload of work.


And for what? I like "proof of concept" scenarios. You've probably seen this on your boat.
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Re: Electric car

#231  Postby felltoearth » Feb 07, 2019 1:36 pm

juju7 wrote:
zulumoose wrote:
I'm considering using 18650 lithium cells to build my battery. I'm pretty sure this is actually what the Tesla cars use, also. Lots to learn about those cells and how to build a safe battery with them.


18650 is still the most energy dense and cost effective Lithium unit, but Tesla are moving to 21700 platform, so all predictions are it will take over as the dominant cell and be further developed.


In future movies how will cars explode on crashing?

Something will go wrong with the circuitry and start on fire even before crashing. I like that better. A firery flaming ball of a car that then crashes into something seems more exciting.
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Re: Electric car

#232  Postby zulumoose » Feb 07, 2019 1:50 pm

Large lithium battery packs are worse than fire when they ignite, more like a magnesium flare collection with clumps of gunpowder, small explosions, bits flying everywhere, and a sparkling flame that a fire extinguisher won't put out.

Not to be messed with unless you have good protective charging circuitry. Once they hit thermal runaway it's as unstoppable as a nuclear meltdown.
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Re: Electric car

#233  Postby felltoearth » Feb 07, 2019 1:53 pm

zulumoose wrote:Large lithium battery packs are worse than fire when they ignite, more like a magnesium flare collection with clumps of gunpowder, small explosions, bits flying everywhere, and a sparkling flame that a fire extinguisher won't put out.

Not to be messed with unless you have good protective charging circuitry. Once they hit thermal runaway it's as unstoppable as a nuclear meltdown.


Exactly! Imagine the cinemagraphic possibilities!
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Re: Electric car

#234  Postby juju7 » Feb 07, 2019 2:17 pm

zulumoose wrote:Large lithium battery packs are worse than fire when they ignite, more like a magnesium flare collection with clumps of gunpowder, small explosions, bits flying everywhere, and a sparkling flame that a fire extinguisher won't put out.

Not to be messed with unless you have good protective charging circuitry. Once they hit thermal runaway it's as unstoppable as a nuclear meltdown.


Nearly impossible to put out a lithium fire.
Water - explodes
Foam - explodes more violently
CO2 - just feeds the fire
Halocarbons - explodes
Sand - forms a thermite like reaction.
Nitrogen - reacts violently

Argon - OK yes, where you going to find an argon extinguisher?
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Re: Electric car

#235  Postby zulumoose » Feb 07, 2019 2:45 pm

Argon - OK yes, where you going to find an argon extinguisher?


Your safest bet if trapped in a moving electric car that hits thermal runaway may be to find the nearest office building, and crash through into their server room, while holding your breath.
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Re: Electric car

#236  Postby GrahamH » Feb 07, 2019 3:25 pm

Simpler than developing your own battery pack, with all the issues of charge balancing, cooling etc, is to transplant a Tesla drive system.

Why do you think that?
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Re: Electric car

#237  Postby Alan C » Feb 18, 2019 2:53 am

Well, I'm liking my 2016 Leaf. It was a Japanese import but the dealer converted the dash displays to UK ones :thumbup:
24KWh and it still has 12 bars for the capacity so it's currently topping 160km range. For what I need for daily work commutes it's fine. Taking longer distance trips involves some planning in Plugshare and admittedly there's been some white-knuckle moments watching the charge level but it's worked out well. Stops to charge up are a good excuse to stretch the legs and look about. Most stations are part of an expanding paid network but some that are provided by the electricity companies are free [at least for now].

There's been at least a few people here that converted vehicles and one company converted a 1957 Ford Fairlane;
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Re: Electric car

#238  Postby tuco » May 06, 2019 2:42 pm

Innolith energy technology brings 1,000km EV within range
Rechargeable inorganic battery technology leader Innolith has revealed it is developing the world’s first 1,000Wh/kg rechargeable battery.

Under development in the company’s German laboratory, the new Innolith Energy Battery will be capable of powering an electric vehicle (EV) for more than 1,000km (621 miles) on a single charge. The high energy density will also radically reduce costs, as will the lack of exotic and expensive materials.


https://www.electrichybridvehicletechno ... range.html

----
Innolith has created an entirely new rechargeable battery technology platform based on inorganic electrolyte. Innolith has built batteries which have been tested over 50,000 cycles at half-hour charge / half-hour discharge with 0 to 100% depth of discharge.

The inorganic electrolyte also means that the batteries are non-combustible and therefore much safer than the highly flammable organic Li-ion batteries in widespread use today.


https://innolith.com/technology/

----

Well, the only thing I can understand about this is capacity, recharge, and safety. Wonder what lack of exotic and expensive materials means?

Does this mean that AAA battery, based on such technology, weighing around 7.5 g, currently holding around 1.5Wh would hold 7.5Wh or 5x more?
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Re: Electric car

#239  Postby romansh » May 06, 2019 4:09 pm

While this a step in the right direction … 1000 Wh/kg is by my calcs 25 to 30 times better than a lead acid battery, and this is interesting in its own right. Or expressed slightly differently 3.6 MJ/kg compared to about 45 MJ/kg for gasoline.
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Re: Electric car

#240  Postby Macdoc » May 06, 2019 4:55 pm

Cept you can’t reuse your petrol
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