Electric car

is it in my future? Yours?

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Re: Electric car

#301  Postby angelo » Jan 02, 2020 11:34 am

Range of many new EV are increasing practically with each new model being released. In the not too distant future, vehicle ranges will not be a problem. Our biggest local motoring body here [RAC] is installing charging stations in most country towns and in between larger towns in service stations, because of the vast distances between some towns of Western Australia.
Now charging times. That's also on the improve.
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Re: Electric car

#302  Postby Tortured_Genius » Jan 10, 2020 1:58 am

Tero wrote:
felltoearth wrote:Drive train repairs, oil changes, muffler and exhaust repair... all common maintenance that will likely add up to the same as a battery replacement or more.
Most people who make those claims don’t compare the costs of maintenance that is particular to ICE automobiles.

That is probably true. But people will not want a big bill all in one year. As much as people hate car warranties (unless it is "free" in the new car for 3 years) the future will see people paying a "battery warranty" for the life of the car.

The comparison to ICE engine is not rally fair in that those cars only run some 29 years and are then junked. If you are to buy a Tesla or similar, it costs so much you want to drive it more than 20 years. You may even drive only 2 cars in your lifetime.


I've been driving Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) For the last 5 years and yes, the £5000 battery is the most expensive component on it. However, last time I looked Nissan had extended the warranty to cover the battery for the life of the vehicle since at that point they'd had a grand total of 2 batteries replaced worldwide under extended warranty schemes.

You definitely have to look at the total cost of ownership. My first Leaf was a swap for a Chevrolet Matiz (a tiny sub-compact) and cost less in monthly payments and power than I was paying for petrol every month. And it's exempt from car tax, the insurance is slightly lower and the ability to out accelerate Audi's and BMW's is a joy :grin: .

Annual full service costs £200, there's no gear box, transmission, etc to go wrong, so that's about it for annual expenses. (I've had to shell out for replacement tyres, but those are hardly unique to electric vehicles).
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Re: Electric car

#303  Postby Cito di Pense » Jan 13, 2020 7:45 am

Tortured_Genius wrote:
I've been driving Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) For the last 5 years


I hope you're only driving one of them at a time. If not, I want to know how you do it and how many legs and arms you have. Serial monogamy is still monogamy. If you made your Leaf function for five years, good on you. Isn't that about how long they've been on the market? If you keep trading up, why7 Do they keep falling apart? I know what you mean, but I still think the image is amusing. Isn't linguistics fun?
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Re: Electric car

#304  Postby Ironclad » Jan 13, 2020 9:17 am

What I believe should revolutionise the electric car revolution would be interchangeable universal, slide in/out battery packs. One simply drives into a forecourt, and swaps a discharged pack.
Makes more sense than having to pre-plan journeys or park near a charging point overnight.
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Re: Electric car

#305  Postby Macdoc » Jan 13, 2020 4:51 pm

The headaches with that is the number of different vehicles and the size/weight of an EV battery.

Tesla has managed to pack the 4,416 cylinder cells (2170) in to four modules that weigh around 1054 lbs / 478 KGs combined.


Fast charge to 80% is a reality now and only getting faster.

Spare packs for motorcycles or eBikes are certainly feasible but not for a car. We're looking at this as an urban car sub-in for my daughter.

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Re: Electric car

#306  Postby Ironclad » Jan 13, 2020 7:33 pm

I can easily see the same kind of units, just bigger. Three feet long slabs one can drag from the rear (boot etc) and slid into a recharge slot, and get a full one in return. The more powerful or large the car, the more slabs you use.
:dunno:
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Re: Electric car

#307  Postby Macdoc » Jan 13, 2020 8:56 pm

Not going to happen unless it is for small utility vehicles.
Even if you divided it in 4 that's still 250+ lbs per "slab".

Battery packs age too...you might get one with with less range and they are not anything to toy with ...immense and dangerous energy.

Not sure why you think charging is such an issue. New chargers and batteries are moving near 5 minutes for 80%
https://www.israel21c.org/israeli-compa ... ctric-car/

UK oil giant British Petroleum has plans to make charging an electric car as close as possible to refuelling a regular fossil-fuelled vehicle. In a recent interview, BP's head of technology David Eyton said that it wants to provide batteries for electric cars by 2021 that can charge to 100% within just five minutes.Jul 29, 2019
Oil major BP aims to fully charge electric cars in 5 minutes by ...
https://thedriven.io › 2019/07/29 › oil-major-bp-aims-to-fully-charge-electri...


New Battery Lets Electric Cars Go 200 Miles on a 10-Minute ...
https://singularityhub.com › 2019/11/04 › new-battery-lets-electric-cars-go...
Nov 4, 2019 - A new battery design that can charge in just 10 minutes promises to tackle that ... to cut the charging time even further to five minutes, which puts them on equal ...


People just adjust their work/travel to include charging with other things, grocery shopping, coffee stop etc
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Re: Electric car

#308  Postby Tortured_Genius » Jan 14, 2020 12:59 am

Ironclad wrote:I can easily see the same kind of units, just bigger. Three feet long slabs one can drag from the rear (boot etc) and slid into a recharge slot, and get a full one in return. The more powerful or large the car, the more slabs you use.
:dunno:


That was a concept experimented with by Tesla and most other EV manufacturers and was thrown out for a bunch of reasons, some of which have already been mentioned (this article summarises some).

Standardisation between manufacturers is the major killer and although there was some progress with adoption of some rapid charger standards, chargers in the UK still cater to 2 different types of rapid charger connections at service stations with Tesla's being a 3rd completely proprietary separate charger network.

As it is I have to carry a cable kit to fit various "slow" chargers at car parks, shopping centres and the like (polar etc).

Now imagine having to cater to different battery standards for every manufacturer - nightmare!

Only when it's absolutely clear that there is not going to be an opportunity to completely monopolise the EV market will the various players (I'm looking at you Elon) start seriously considering standardising connections and kit.
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Re: Electric car

#309  Postby Tortured_Genius » Jan 14, 2020 1:06 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
Tortured_Genius wrote:
I've been driving Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) For the last 5 years


I hope you're only driving one of them at a time. If not, I want to know how you do it and how many legs and arms you have. Serial monogamy is still monogamy. If you made your Leaf function for five years, good on you. Isn't that about how long they've been on the market? If you keep trading up, why7 Do they keep falling apart? I know what you mean, but I still think the image is amusing. Isn't linguistics fun?


2 Leaf's serially in 5 years - the car dealers in the UK offer Personal Credit Plans that make effectively hiring new vehicles particularly attractive (with the option to buy at the end of the plan period). If we'd had the money we'd have replaced my wife's ICE sub-compact with an electric version.
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Re: Electric car

#310  Postby LucidFlight » Jan 14, 2020 3:39 am

So, you had two Leafs in series. More power to you.
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Re: Electric car

#311  Postby Macdoc » Jan 14, 2020 8:19 pm

Because of the somewhat high price initially having finance that matches the kind of savings expected would be ideal.

Here I always thought that a $199 a month lease on an EV was ideal. Then as tech moves forward you can switch to a new lease.

Good calculator here
https://www.goultralow.com/journey-cost ... alculator/

This on a 40 mile round trip commute

NISSAN Juke
£3.80
Journey fuel cost (electricity / petrol)

9.5p
Cost per mile

£1,387

NISSAN Leaf
£1.55
Journey fuel cost (electricity / petrol)

3.9p
Cost per mile

£566
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Re: Electric car

#312  Postby Ken Fabian » Jan 15, 2020 7:38 am

Ironclad wrote:What I believe should revolutionise the electric car revolution would be interchangeable universal, slide in/out battery packs. One simply drives into a forecourt, and swaps a discharged pack.
Makes more sense than having to pre-plan journeys or park near a charging point overnight.


I think not so much for passenger vehicles, but I think this might be good for larger road freight vehicles that need to do long hours and distances with minimum time out.

Changeover stations could find additional opportunities for electricity grid services - load leveling and demand management - and may provide some through basic market mechanisms; they will get better electricity prices whenever power availability exceeds demand and avoid charging when availability is constrained. They could also feed power back to the grid - potentially significant amounts should electric trucks become more widely used - under arrangements that could benefit grid management as well as charge station operators.
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Re: Electric car

#313  Postby Ironclad » Jan 15, 2020 11:49 pm

I'll patent this right away
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Re: Electric car

#314  Postby Macdoc » Jan 16, 2020 1:13 am

It's more likely they would simply switch out charged tractors.
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Re: Electric car

#315  Postby The_Metatron » Jan 23, 2020 1:59 pm

The transportation model of long haul trucking needs to be made extinct. Rails.


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Re: Electric car

#316  Postby Macdoc » Jan 23, 2020 4:52 pm

There is already lots of rails and the linear nature creates bottlenecks. Hydrogen and EV are both in play now. Local delivery is going EV quickly.

Picked up one of these as a family/biz resource as we have a few non-drivers and drivers without cars. Was $600 off so very affordable.




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Re: Electric car

#317  Postby Hermit » Jan 23, 2020 7:28 pm

The_Metatron wrote:The transportation model of long haul trucking needs to be made extinct. Rails.

In Australia that's the way freight transport has been heading for a couple of decades now. Almost all general and much of express freight between Australia's east coast and the west goes by train. It's called intermodal transport. Trucks are used for the metaphorical "last mile".

When the $10 billion Inland Rail Project is completed in 2025 it will take thousands more trucks permanently off the road. By avoiding the Sydney bottleneck the 1700 kilometre trip between Brisbane and Melbourne will take considerably less than 24 hours. That's something that cannot legally be done on the road, and it is no longer possible to do illegally. The Safe-T-Cam network takes photos of the number plates of every truck, digitises them and imposes substantial fines on the owner every time the rest-period regulations are broken. After three offences the truck is impounded for three months. Two-up driving is of course even less price competitive.

Not that Sydney, or any regional centres for that matter, are left out in the cold. Tracks are already branching out at Parkes and other rail nodes. The inhabitants of dozens of our country towns are looking forward for their branch rail connection with great eagerness.

Image

The next step will be to electrify the lines, but nobody is even talking about that yet. All our locomotives that haul freight are Diesel-electric.

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Re: Electric car

#318  Postby Macdoc » Jan 23, 2020 9:14 pm

and what happens when these roll out this decade. Building rail lines is expensive.

Image

Hyundai will also deliver the first of 1600 hydrogen-powered semi-tractors to companies in Switzerland later this year. While the powertrain in these trucks is zero emission, the look is a more standard cab-over design based on Hyundai's XCient truck.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2961 ... mi-trucks/

Australia has a very compelling solar to hydrogen argument tho that applies to trains as well.
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Re: Electric car

#319  Postby Hermit » Jan 23, 2020 9:56 pm

Macdoc wrote:and what happens when these roll out this decade. Building rail lines is expensive.

Image

Hyundai will also deliver the first of 1600 hydrogen-powered semi-tractors to companies in Switzerland later this year. While the powertrain in these trucks is zero emission, the look is a more standard cab-over design based on Hyundai's XCient truck.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2961 ... mi-trucks/

Australia has a very compelling solar to hydrogen argument tho that applies to trains as well.

Roads are expensive to build as well, and they are more expensive to maintain. Regardless of power source, rail will haul more tons per fuel used than road.

Then there's the labour cost. Even a B-double only moves about 35 tons of payload per driver. A triple road train will do up to 70 tons, but they are not allowed to use most of the busier highways. It also takes a lot longer to hook up a three-trailer two-dolly combination than the rail equivalent.

And do you have any idea how much more the wear and tear of 62 rubber tyres costs per kilometre - even if none of them blow out before the end of their natural life span - than 16 steel wheels?

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Re: Electric car

#320  Postby Macdoc » Jan 24, 2020 9:40 am



2 years ago



four years ago

Daimler Tests Autonomous Big-Rig Convoy on Public Roads
Three Wifi-connected self-driving tractor-trailers navigated Autobahn traffic in close formation, saving fuel and cutting emissions thanks to formation driving.

Image
BY BOB SOROKANICH
MAR 22, 2016

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/c ... convoy-on/

Now admittedly Australia and Canada might be special cases for rail due to size and low density but in our cases we use ships right to center of the continent via both St Lawrence Seaway and the US uses the Mississipi and the Ohio Valley amongst other waterways.

Despite having full duplex rail and an ocean going waterway right beside it, the 401 between Windsor and Montreal is the busiest commercial highway in North America as flexibility is key.

With autonomous trucking looming - truck driver futures are in doubt.

Good comparison here - detailed related articles.
https://www.up.com/customers/track-reco ... es-all.htm

Raw materials in volume ...rail wins big. Goods?? not so much.
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