Electric car

is it in my future? Yours?

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Re: Electric car

#321  Postby Hermit » Jan 24, 2020 11:45 am

Macdoc wrote:Now admittedly Australia and Canada might be special cases for rail due to size and low density but in our cases we use ships right to center of the continent via both St Lawrence Seaway and the US uses the Mississipi and the Ohio Valley amongst other waterways.

Despite having full duplex rail and an ocean going waterway right beside it, the 401 between Windsor and Montreal is the busiest commercial highway in North America as flexibility is key.

A reminder of what I was replying to seems in order.
The_Metatron wrote:The transportation model of long haul trucking needs to be made extinct. Rails.

In that context, population density, freight costs per weight and distance are simply lower for rail, no matter whether we are talking about a standard shipping container filled with 22 tons of apples or 22 tons of express freight parcels and regardless of whether the container is loaded in Sydney and unloaded in Perth or Stuttgart and Frankfurt.

The main hurdle for rail freight is that the road transport industry does not pay for the existence and maintenance of the hugely expensive infrastructure that has been built for many decades now. I am referring to the construction of multilane dual-carriageways, also known as freeways, expressways, autobahnen, autostrada, et cetera. No road taxes come near covering it. This is known as an external expense. In percentage terms the road freight industry pays next to nothing for that. The necessary funds come out of general tax revenue. In most countries that means the personal income tax paid by wage earners.

In contrast, construction of the requisite rail infrastructure has been neglected ever since the fossil fuel industry and carmakers have hijacked transport infrastructure policies almost a century ago. Ironically, this is changing now - albeit gradually. Major road freight companies increasingly push for, and invest in rail because it makes economic sense. It also gives them a competitive advantage over those who do not. Intermodal is the way of the future. The glory days of linehaul are numbered. Driverless tractor-trailer combinations won't bring them back.
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Re: Electric car

#322  Postby Ken Fabian » Jan 24, 2020 11:02 pm

Macdoc -
With autonomous trucking looming - truck driver futures are in doubt.


But a few more (lower paid) jobs containerizing the freight so no driver needs to check it is secure.

Hermit -
The next step will be to electrify the lines, but nobody is even talking about that yet. All our locomotives that haul freight are Diesel-electric.

And line the tracks with solar panels; daytime rail freight, half price? I think rail corridors would be handy locations for solar farms but I suppose that with a solar rich grid (elsewhere) just having electric rail connected would do.

I'm all for improved rail but long term planning continues to be a policy problem for populist governments - with including low emissions considerations complicated by ongoing technological change.
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Re: Electric car

#323  Postby felltoearth » Feb 02, 2020 11:14 pm

It appears electric buses are in the present.

Electric bus at a charging station in Montréal.

https://twitter.com/sean_yyz/status/122 ... 67879?s=21

Toronto has had them in service for a few weeks now. More on the way.
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Re: Electric car

#324  Postby Fallible » Feb 02, 2020 11:35 pm

Yep, we have them in London.
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Re: Electric car

#325  Postby felltoearth » Feb 02, 2020 11:41 pm

So cool!
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Re: Electric car

#326  Postby The_Metatron » Feb 03, 2020 4:08 pm

Any technical details? If it were me, I'd feed those batteries DC at as much current as they can digest. I can't imagine that's a single contact on the roof, electrically. There would need to be a return path for current.

I wonder what charging/driving duty cycle they get.


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Re: Electric car

#327  Postby The_Metatron » Feb 03, 2020 4:08 pm

Any technical details? If it were me, I'd feed those batteries DC at as much current as they can digest. I can't imagine that's a single contact on the roof, electrically. There would need to be a return path for current.

I wonder what charging/driving duty cycle they get.


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Re: Electric car

#328  Postby felltoearth » Feb 03, 2020 4:44 pm

The_Metatron wrote:Any technical details? If it were me, I'd feed those batteries DC at as much current as they can digest. I can't imagine that's a single contact on the roof, electrically. There would need to be a return path for current.

I wonder what charging/driving duty cycle they get.


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All I know is that they receive a full charge in five minutes. I’m guessing the total run is less than 20km where these are in service.
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Re: Electric car

#329  Postby felltoearth » Feb 03, 2020 4:51 pm

Route info for the bus

36 Monk

Guess was slightly off. Return trip length 21.6km.

Bus route 36 on the map of Montreal
Route statistics:
Length (distance) of the route in the outbound direction: 10.87 km
Stops: 40
Length (distance) of the route in the inbound direction: 10.7 km
Stops: 38


ETA 40 minute round trip
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Re: Electric car

#330  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 03, 2020 5:48 pm

You dont want buses. One of the most inefficient form of transport. The breaking and acceleration times are abysmal compared to trams. In an urban context the most efficient is a subway system but a modern one. The Underground and Metro of Paris are out of date. For suburbs light rail should be used that can link into the city's normal tram network. With trams/light rail there is no need to maintain expensive busways.

Also the aim is to reduce car access to cities. In the urban situation there is no place for cars. Bicycles offer a far better option.
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Re: Electric car

#331  Postby Fallible » Feb 03, 2020 5:49 pm

Manchester has a tram and bus network.
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Re: Electric car

#332  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 03, 2020 5:55 pm

Fallible wrote:Manchester has a tram and bus network.


Manchester is in dubio. It cant make a commitment. You must decide and stand by your decision. We did that in the 70's.

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Re: Electric car

#333  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 03, 2020 6:00 pm

There is an urban tower (circa 400 units) being built just down the road from me in the city centre and it does not have a single parking space. It does have cycle storage for 800 bikes.
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Re: Electric car

#334  Postby Fallible » Feb 03, 2020 6:02 pm

Right ok.
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Re: Electric car

#335  Postby Svartalf » Feb 03, 2020 6:05 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:You dont want buses. One of the most inefficient form of transport. The breaking and acceleration times are abysmal compared to trams. In an urban context the most efficient is a subway system but a modern one. The Underground and Metro of Paris are out of date. For suburbs light rail should be used that can link into the city's normal tram network. With trams/light rail there is no need to maintain expensive busways.

Also the aim is to reduce car access to cities. In the urban situation there is no place for cars. Bicycles offer a far better option.

Trams require significant infrastructure, and take up room that is made unavailable for general circulation. Buses can circulate in the main street. Just that difference may make buses interesting in most urban areas. My former hometown, Bordeaux, had trams installed... it significantly worsened the fuckup that circulation is in that town.
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Re: Electric car

#336  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 03, 2020 6:22 pm

Sorry Svarty bad city planning. You want to separate traffic not mix it. Roads are paid by taxes which is why they are initially cheaper. Long term plans must be made and maintained. Get cars out of cities and bikes in. It has changed our cities completely (except the arsehole itself).

The tower block I mentioned:

Image

The rest already exists. The one on the left is being built and all have been sold or rented.
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Re: Electric car

#337  Postby Svartalf » Feb 03, 2020 6:27 pm

Bikes are not something I want to use, and bikers are a public hazard. Plus, when your city is the centerpiece of a large metropolitan area, you want to make circulation good for the cars of people who come from surrounding communities... I know I sure enjoy it when friends who don't dwell in Paris fetch me by car to spend an afternoon among friends.
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Re: Electric car

#338  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 03, 2020 6:36 pm

Sorry disagree. Good planned infrastructure will solve the problem. You can do that with public transport. A question of turning the switch. Here in apartment building there is still an old dear who has a metal box on wheels and uses it to travel the 800 metres to the city centre and pays €8 an hour for the privilege of parking. She happily claims she has never used public transport in her life. Mentality Svarty.
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Re: Electric car

#339  Postby Svartalf » Feb 03, 2020 6:40 pm

You can't properly plan infrastructure when you are in an area with centuries or history, which lacks in planning, or which has benefited from obsolete planning, and where you can't afford to to a complete redo and demolish a lot of the existing town to rebuild to modern standards.
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Re: Electric car

#340  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 03, 2020 6:44 pm

We do it the whole time. Do you think the Hague has been flattened? Far from it. It takes planning and commitment both of which are often missing.
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