Electrifying our transport

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Electrifying our transport

#1  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 07, 2021 12:28 am

I replaced my Harley Davidson motorcycle!

My business (bicycle service shop) demands my time during the motorcycling season! Also, I wasn't able to justify the insurance, fuel, and maintenance costs for the Street Bob. Particularly since I don't have that much time to ride it anyway.

So, I traded it for another Harley Davidson.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Serial 1 Mosh City
5D_L4490.jpg
5D_L4490.jpg (1.5 MiB) Viewed 932 times


This one does just about everything I want from a bicycle. It's a single speed Gates belt drive power transmission system, instead of the usual bike chain. Pedaling is assisted by a 250W Brose S Mag motor, powered by a 530Wh battery. They suggest the range is from 50 to 150 km. I am betting closer to 50 than 150. At full output, that motor delivers 90 Nm of torque.

I took it for a 5 km test this afternoon. The way out, I went un-powered to see how it would be to manage if I run the battery down. I used the assist for the ride back. On the flat where I live, the assist didn't help much for top speed. But, depending on the amount of assist selected, it sure gets you to your top speed in a hurry! Being a single speed bike, the top speed is set by your natural cadence. I like that, because it self limits your battery usage. But also, the drive ratio it has is pretty comfortable for city traffic speeds. It was perfectly manageable with no battery assist. No harder to pedal than the Dutch city bikes I had in Belgium.

I am very pleased with it. It's something I will use, instead of dancing around my damned motorcycle in the garage forever, being careful not to scratch it. But as importantly, Primus will also be able to use it to get anywhere he wants to go around the local area. He also test rode it, with much liking of it.

I think he'll be using it more than me.
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#2  Postby Macdoc » Oct 07, 2021 9:50 am

I've downsized to a Honda CB300F - it's my only vehicle here and gets 300 km for about $11 in fuel ...70 or so mpg.

My next one if I'm still riding will be the CB EV based on the same chassis.

https://jalopnik.com/get-excited-about- ... 1846210115

In the meantime my daughter and I split a RadPower Mini.

Image
https://www.radpowerbikes.com/collectio ... tric-bikes


and you are correct it sure gets to top speed quick with just mild pedaling at full assist.

It's going to be a nightmare for insurance and road regulations.
I saw a version of this doing at least 35 kph weaving in and out of traffic and sidewalk and bike lanes.
Image

and that one does 60 mph ...100 kph
https://electric-scooter.guide/reviews/ ... ng-review/
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#3  Postby felltoearth » Oct 07, 2021 5:18 pm

That’s a sick looking bike Metatron
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#4  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 08, 2021 2:05 am

Macdoc wrote:I've downsized to a Honda CB300F - it's my only vehicle here and gets 300 km for about $11 in fuel ...70 or so mpg.

My next one if I'm still riding will be the CB EV based on the same chassis.

https://jalopnik.com/get-excited-about- ... 1846210115

In the meantime my daughter and I split a RadPower Mini.

Image
https://www.radpowerbikes.com/collectio ... tric-bikes


and you are correct it sure gets to top speed quick with just mild pedaling at full assist.

It's going to be a nightmare for insurance and road regulations.
I saw a version of this doing at least 35 kph weaving in and out of traffic and sidewalk and bike lanes.
Image

and that one does 60 mph ...100 kph
https://electric-scooter.guide/reviews/ ... ng-review/

My shop is a now a preferred service shop for Radpower bikes. The quality is good. I'm not a big fan of the hub/motors, though. If you ever have to remove that rear wheel to fix a puncture, you'll know why. Pro tip: To dramatically reduce punctures, get the proper sized Tannus armour for your tires from Radpower. I've installed a few sets of the Tannus armour, and have no customers return with a puncture on one.

That's another place Harley saved a bit of costs on my new bike, the tire setup.

The rims are tubeless compatible, but they set them up at the factory with standard tire/inner tube configuration. It requires less skill, and it's cheaper. The particular model of Schwalbe tire they selected is also not a tubeless tire, dammit. Tubeless bicycle tires (including 100 ml of sealant) are lighter than the tire/tube combination. They are also highly puncture tolerant. A thorn that will end an inner tube means nothing to a tubeless tire that still has sealant inside. The sealant does have temperature functional limits, but those are usually beyond human tolerance for the weather.

Another pro tip: Never use that green slimy crap in your inner tubes. It simply doesn't work to prevent flat tires. What it does do is corrode brass, separating the inner tube from the brass valve stem, giving you that flat tire you sought to avoid. That corrosion also makes the valves stop operating. I fix a lot of green slimy crap messy flat tires.

So, when these tires wear out or I pick up enough punctures to motivate me, I'll replace them with tubeless tires.

I replaced a tire on one of those electric scooters once. I had to disassemble the deck to release the wiring to the rear motor/wheel. Very difficult to do without damaging anything. Great fun to ride. But, not particularly safe. Sure, there are disc brakes. But, so what? Apply enough braking force to the platform you're standing on, and you won't be on it for long. Helmets and body armor would be smart with these things!
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#5  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 08, 2021 2:09 am

felltoearth wrote:That’s a sick looking bike Metatron

After work today, I left it in my boys' living room at the other end of the house. I commented to Primus that maybe I should move it to my front room, just so I can sit and look at it.
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#6  Postby romansh » Oct 08, 2021 3:53 am

How did you go about choosing that particular bike?
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#7  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 08, 2021 3:56 pm

That was a harder question than it appeared.

I've wanted to electrify my two wheeled transportation and replace that 1.6L v-twin with something not quite so "Fuck You!" to the rest of the world. For many reasons, I couldn't justify its existence. So, that pointed me to the e-bike solution. Which is is a great transition to narrowing down my choices.

A solution to what problem? I should be able to define what I want to do with the thing. The answer is fairly simple. Short, quick trips. Errands. Errands that aren't quite worth taking the car for a ride. Library, grocery store for a single item, things like that.

And, if I'm going to take a bike, I'm probably going to do it on fair days. I do have a choice of transportation, so no need to suffer a bike ride in the rain. So, I didn't need fenders.

I like the aesthetic of the Mosh Cty model, which is subjective, of course. I've serviced the equivalent e-bikes from Specialized, and was struck by their beauty as well. More on the Specialized bikes a bit later...

I don't do off road riding, so no need for suspension, fore or aft. The weight savings are pretty significant, fixed geometry is cheaper, and much less service is necessary (one of S1's design goals).

I wasn't really worried about comparing range specs. To be useful, therefore sell-able, range is not going to be a problem. I did notice just now that the Rush Cty Speed model can burn through its battery in 25 miles (40 km)!

The Specialized offerings all use industry standard bicycle freehub/cassette chain driven derailleur shifted drive trains. They have a ten and a twelve speed offering (get the ten, save the dosh). This stuff is in use absolutely everywhere and is well proven. Service and support for them exist readily. Nothing bad to say about the mechanicals. But, they are mechanicals, and they do require care and feeding, which I want to avoid or reduce.

The Mosh Cty was the only offering from S1 that had no transmission. It's a single speed drive train. The front ring is 48 teeth, the rear is 22 teeth. A comparative gear ratio would be riding with the chain on the large ring on a typical MTB front triple (28t-38t-48t) and a cog somewhere on the low side of the middle of the cassette. Pretty tall ratio, but manageable. What I like best is it is a Gates Belt Drive instead of standard bicycle chain. Again, S1 was going for low maintenance, and the belt drive nails it. My big Harley was also a Gates belt drive. They have been for years. I have complete confidence in the belt drive.

The other three S1 models have the Enviolo (formerly NuVinci) continuously variable planetary hub transmission. I had a manually controlled version of this transmission on my Dutch city bike. The Enviolo version is automatic. You simply set your cadence and the transmission goes where it needs to be, along with the electric motor to get there and stay there. Super cool, but tech I didn't want.

I'd have had the Mosh Tribute model if they had one in my size, but they did not. I'm glad they didn't. On inspection, the only differences between the Tribute and the Cty are cosmetic (glossy paint with brass lettering, white tires, silver seat post and clamp, honey colored Brooks sprung saddle, and honey colored Brooks leather handlebar grips). Not worth the extra $2000.

Both Specialized and S1 use the Brose S Mag(nesium case) ebike motor. Brose also has this motor in an aluminum case, but the magnesium case is smaller and 500g lighter. Brose is an industry leader, installed in many ebike platforms. Nothing to worry about there, I expect.

I also service many hub/motor ebikes. And, I detest them. In operation, they work just fine, no complaints there. But those things are heavy, and very difficult to mount and unmount. No way was I having one of those. It was always going to be a mid-mounted drive motor for me.

The Mosh struck the best balance of the factors I considered. It's only a class 1 ebike with a 25 mph (40 kmh) speed limit. Well, the bike will go faster, but it won't help you do it. The drive ratio is such that my comfortable riding cadence is probably around 15 mph (25 kph). That is quite fast enough around here in traffic. What they've done with the Mosh is replace the transmission with an electric motor, to get you to your desired pedaling cadence and keep you there. It really works well, too.

I can tell you, after servicing bikes for a few years now, the Mosh is pretty much what I would build if I could simply build my own ebike. They made the same design and build decisions I would have made.

All of that is what got me to here. I'm looking forward to seeing if reality agrees with my expectations over some time.

I took an ass kicking on that big Harley. I got what I could for it, which was not as much as I'd hoped. I had it displayed for sale in front of my shop for two spring seasons. Not one serious call in that time. The real value is what you can ultimately get for a thing. I made the decision to buy that big Harley in a different time and place, true. If I knew then what I now know, I wouldn't have bought it.
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#8  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 08, 2021 4:00 pm

On the up side, my new ebike is still a Harley Davidson. So, one of these years I'll take the shop out of my van, rig it for traveling and take it and my ebike to Sturgis and cruise the main drag on my Harley.
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#9  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 08, 2021 4:28 pm

It was insurance costs for my big Harley that triggered me to take it out of service. Insurance, registration, and service would cost me a hundred bucks a month or more just to park the thing in my garage, ready to rarely be used.

I get satisfaction from getting almost the same results from this new ebike that I could get with the big Harley. The ebike requires no registration or insurance. Its service costs are a tiny fraction of the care and feeding of the big Harley.

As Macdoc above, I did consider getting a smaller engined regular motorcycle. But, I took the idea a bit farther. I'll adapt to what I have and what it can do.
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#10  Postby romansh » Oct 08, 2021 6:42 pm

The_Metatron wrote:That was a harder question than it appeared

<snip>.

Thanks a bit more than I expected but really appreciated. :)
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#11  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 08, 2021 8:56 pm

romansh wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:That was a harder question than it appeared

<snip>.

Thanks a bit more than I expected but really appreciated. :)

Well, I had to answer it for myself, too. Good question that should have an answer.
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#12  Postby i have no avatar » Aug 14, 2022 3:37 am

Two weeks ago, we bought ms. no avatar one of these:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
gen_e1r1.JPG
gen_e1r1.JPG (118.8 KiB) Viewed 319 times


It's from REI. It has a Bafang 350W hub motor, and she loves it - it allows her to ride again (neck issues). We've been to the grocery store (3 mi round trip) 2-3 times and today we went 10.3 mi to the UPS store (and back) to return some items she purchased that weren't right.

So far, so good. Anything to get some exercise and to keep us from cranking up the car.
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#13  Postby The_Metatron » Aug 14, 2022 11:17 pm

I see a few Co op bikes come in for service. Decent quality. Certainly not a Walmart “bike”.

I’ve been inside one of those Bafang motors. Very high quality, precision motors. They are a huge hub motor manufacturer used by many builders.

The motor was not the problem in that case, so I replaced its armature needlessly. The bike builder was following a troubleshooting tree. The actual problem was a high resistance connection within the multiple pin connector at the motor controller. It heated up, then melted the connector. The controller failed safe, there was no battery fire.

Still, it was cool to see inside one of their motors!

A little silicone grease brushed onto those connector pins before mating the connectors would have prevented that fault.
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Re: Electrifying our transport

#14  Postby i have no avatar » Aug 15, 2022 4:57 am

Thanks for the insight Jesse, and I know who to come see if we have a problem with it. :)
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