FActoids in the wine trade ...

NilsGLindgren · #1 by **NilsGLindgren** » Feb 25, 2011 10:05 am

I have, these last few years, worked at debunking (from a purely amateur stand point) some of the myths surrounding wine and grapes, e g Lazarus von Schwendi and the alleged introduction of pinot gris in Alsace, the alleged Persian origin of Syrah (or Shiraz for those downunder) and a few other odds and ends.

I recently found that there circulates a story that the emperor Charles IV (son of Blind King John, and of the house of Luxembourg) "ordered" the Cistercian Friar to introduce pinot gris to the shores of the Lake Balaton (Plattensee) in Hungary in 1375.
The pinot gris is indeed cultivated in the area, where it is called szürkebarat (meaning, Grey Monk, or Grey Brother).

What strikes me as odd is that the emperor should have views on what should be cultivated by the pious friars in Hungary, which was not part of the Empire but a kingdom in its own right.

If I understand correctly, documentation in Hungary is hampered by the unfortunate happenings from 1521 and forward.

What documentation there is is incomprehensible to me as I know not a word of Hungarian. I had google translate a few documents concerning Lazarus von Schwendi and the result was not very much better.

Is my thinking correct, that it would appear improbable that the emperor should try to push his opinions concerning pinot gris on the Cistercians? What do the historically minded say?

kiore · #2 by **kiore** » Feb 25, 2011 10:58 am

He could have done if he were a benefactor of the order.. The order was 'international' after all, just throwing that out there..

Corneel · #3 by **Corneel** » Feb 25, 2011 5:23 pm

His eldest daughter was Margaret of Bohemia, Queen of Hungary, though she died in 1349.
His third wife was [url]Anna von Schweidnitz[/url], granddaughter of Charles I of Hungary.
And his son and successor as HRE (Sigismund), became king of Hungary in 1387 and was betrothed to his future wife, Mary of Hungary, in 1374 (at the ripe age of 6 years... Mary was 3 years old).
So he clearly had something going on with Hungary.
Maybe the introduction of the pinot gris was some kind of betrothal gift? And that way he had a source of pinot gris wine not far from his kingdom of Bohemia?

NilsGLindgren · #4 by **NilsGLindgren** » Feb 25, 2011 10:18 pm

I have considered whether perhaps the son was the real instigator. A simple mix-up. And yet. At the time, pinot, as in pinot noir, was not yet, or just about to be, documented. As for PG, documentation is worse. That the grape calle fromenteau in Bourgogne would be PG is only a conjecture ... I have not been able to find a "first mention" of PG.