Non-military invasions and conquests in history

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Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#1  Postby In Sitchu » Feb 26, 2020 7:16 pm

I'm rather interested in looking at non-military invasions and conquests throughout history, if anyone has any good examples.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#2  Postby Animavore » Feb 26, 2020 7:28 pm

The Celt-ism apparently spread because surrounding people thought they were cool and wanted to be like them and copied them. But I could hardly call that invasion or conquest.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#3  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 26, 2020 8:42 pm

In Sitchu wrote:I'm rather interested in looking at non-military invasions and conquests throughout history, if anyone has any good examples.


Both 'invasion' and 'conquest' necessarily suggest the military component.

Perhaps you want to suggest a specific instance of the kind of thing you're interested in?

Not meant to insinuate anything, but this forum has a track record of attracting certain types of 'interested parties' so please excuse me for imagining that you're imagining Muslim migration to Europe as being an example of the kind of thing.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#4  Postby In Sitchu » Feb 26, 2020 9:04 pm

I don't really have any examples that come to mind. I'm not sure how one would consider immigration to be an invasion. People moving from one area to another has always occurred, whether on a small or large scale.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#5  Postby aufbahrung » Feb 26, 2020 9:20 pm

Islam is the latest of the three great religions and more close to a political ideology with consequent pyschologicol techniques. It might spread because of military expansion but the Islamic preachers spread it around India. Obviously I've read this and feel free to find holes in my tinned history of the world thus far, for which I can blame a poor memory.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#6  Postby laklak » Feb 27, 2020 2:07 am

The British Invasion.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#7  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 27, 2020 3:28 am

aufbahrung wrote:Islam is the latest of the three great religions and more close to a political ideology with consequent pyschologicol techniques.


No: all organized religion is political. That's what the 'organized' bit really means. Christianity has been a political ideology for at least 1500 years.


aufbahrung wrote: It might spread because of military expansion but the Islamic preachers spread it around India. Obviously I've read this and feel free to find holes in my tinned history of the world thus far, for which I can blame a poor memory.


Not just Islamic preachers, but also simple traders taking their goods around and carrying their beliefs with them, impressing various natives with their practices and beliefs. The Islamic component of India is quite largely conquest oriented, but the arisal of Islam in the South East Asia archipelago was through transmission of ideas; the same way Buddhism and Hinduism arrived.

But none of these are relevant anyway as they're not 'invasions' or 'conquests' - just the spreading of ideas. An invasion or a conquest involves forcible introduction of new people, not changing the beliefs of the existing population.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#8  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 27, 2020 3:30 am

In Sitchu wrote:I don't really have any examples that come to mind. I'm not sure how one would consider immigration to be an invasion. People moving from one area to another has always occurred, whether on a small or large scale.



Oh I agree, but as I say - we get a fair number of people here who insist that it is.

As I mentioned above, I don't think you can really find an example of a non-military invasion or conquest because they're both predicated on the military component. Even if a group of people were to peacefully move into another territory, they'd inevitably encounter conflict with the existing settled population even if just for competition for resources.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#9  Postby Macdoc » Feb 27, 2020 7:13 am

The only one that comes to mind would be the spread of The Hudson Bay Company in Canada by virtue of expanding fur trade.

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3 million square miles
Convinced of the economic potential, on May 2, 1670 - with a stroke of the royal pen - King Charles II created a monopoly over 3 million square miles of land. The Hudson's Bay Company - the Honourable Company of Adventurers - was born.


for reference Europe is 3.9 million square miles

The forts were primarily trading locations but there were some military involvement but not for the purpose of conquest.

https://www.canadashistory.ca/explore/h ... -the-forts

The fur trading companies could not expand without the cooperation of the local indigenes who wanted to trade for goods.

By contrast the US fur and Buffalo trade was largely by non-native trappers and eventually pretty much a genocide aided and abetted by US military.

Canada not without blemish in that regard but the expansion of the fur trade the only example I could think of.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#10  Postby aufbahrung » Feb 27, 2020 7:39 am

Smallpox wiped a lot of those natives out when it arrived with the fur traders. Invasion might be the word to use, in the same way it is is used for non-native species invading a territory. I'm happy with that. Anyway.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#11  Postby Hermit » Feb 27, 2020 8:54 am

Like the East India Company, the Hudson Bay Company functioned as the de facto government on behalf of Great Britain, and both backed their trading activities with military means whenever deemed necessary. The first ship of the HBC was equipped with six 2-pounder cannons. In those days all trading ships were armed, of course, but I think ignoring the fact that they were armed leads to the misleading impression that these powerful traders would have succeeded without some sort of military facilities, albeit in both cases privately owned and operated ones.

Names of the early settlements the HBC established between 1668 and 1717, such as Fort Albany, Fort Severn and Fort Churchill also indicated that brute force underpinned the enterprise even if it only acted as a threat.

Then there was the Pemmican War, basically armed confrontations between the Hudson Bay Company and the North West Company. It started in 1812 and ended when the latter merged with the former in 1821. Fighting forces were made from members of the Cree, the Métis and at least 300 professional soldiers who had been released from their respective regiments. Numerous exchanges of gun fire took place, sometimes involving cannon as well. Forts were taken, retaken and burnt down. The battle of The Seven Oaks cost the lives of 22 fighters.

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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#12  Postby In Sitchu » Feb 27, 2020 12:38 pm

I just thought of one example. It's the only one I can think of so far, which is the occupation of Austria by Germany. Technically it did involve their military, but in reality they were welcomed and they just walked right in without any resistance. That would indicate (I'm guessing) that if Hitler had just declared Austria to be part of Germany and if germans had begun coming into Austria, the Austrians would have been like, yeah ok.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#13  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 27, 2020 12:43 pm

It's an interesting example, but it's kind of complex historically thanks to the long history of being co-members of the predominantly German Holy Roman Empire superstate. Popular opinion, so I've read, was clearly in favour of reunification to form a Greater Germany, but the 1st World War treaty of Versailles had expressly forbid this, so in a way, it was foreign influence stopping a democratic desire to be considered the same nation. Ironically, anschluss might have occurred earlier if it hadn't been for the Austrian Nazi party's antics!
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#14  Postby Macdoc » Feb 27, 2020 12:47 pm

re Hudson Bay
Again the was no fur trade in that area without cooperation of the indigenes.
There was an ongoing war between France and Britain which overlaid the commercial aspect and indigenes were drafted, willingly in that for trade goods or revenge on rival tribes.
You don't conquer militarily a place the size of Europe in the 16th century.
Also armed aspects applied to indigenous tribes for their own security and for the trading companies each had it's own para-military ....not sure a handful of ships and a very few king's own qualifies as an invading force.

That said France, Britain and Russia were imperialists and Russia in particular was brutal in its quest for furs ...really to the point of enslaving locals.
But then indigenous tribes enslaved each other. Such a peaceable bunch H Sapiens :roll:

Another situation that comes to mind is the migration south and west of the agricultural Bantu in S Africa away from the military pressure of Shaka Zulu to occupy lands lightly traversed by an older hunter gatherer culture the Bushmen who'd been there forever.
Was that a military invasion?
Yes by Shaka Zulu to displace the Bantu who would not be engulfed.
Not sure about the Bantu moving into areas not cultivated. :ask:
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#15  Postby Hermit » Feb 27, 2020 2:23 pm

In Sitchu wrote:I just thought of one example. It's the only one I can think of so far, which is the occupation of Austria by Germany. Technically it did involve their military, but in reality they were welcomed and they just walked right in without any resistance. That would indicate (I'm guessing) that if Hitler had just declared Austria to be part of Germany and if germans had begun coming into Austria, the Austrians would have been like, yeah ok.

You don't seem to have familiarised yourself with any details concerning the Anschluss.

Although support for unification was massive among Austrians, more than 60% of the population was opposed to it in 1933. Hitler himself called the proposed unification an annexation. Austrian Nazis assassinated the Austrian Chancellor Engelbert Dollfuss during a coup in July 1934. The coup failed after five days. Hitler sent an ultimatum to Dollfuss's successor, Kurt Schuschnigg on 11 March, demanding that he hand over all power to the Austrian Nazis or face an invasion. Schuschnigg sought support from France and Britain, but got none whatsoever. Left to his own devices, he saw the hopelessness of his situation, and resigned. Hitler's Wehrmacht invaded Austria with the Führer himself following close behind. He took no chances, though. His personal bodyguard numbered 4000 men.

After the annexation came the plebiscite. It was rigged, of course. Thousands of voters were disenfranchised first on the grounds of being social democrats Jews or any other reason for which they might be suspected to vote against the annexation. The ballot sheet itself graphically betrays that it was rigged.

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Edit: Fixed image link. Thank you, OlivierK.
Last edited by Hermit on Feb 28, 2020 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#16  Postby Hermit » Feb 27, 2020 2:32 pm

Macdoc wrote:re Hudson Bay
Again the was no fur trade in that area without cooperation of the indigenes.
There was an ongoing war between France and Britain which overlaid the commercial aspect and indigenes were drafted, willingly in that for trade goods or revenge on rival tribes.
You don't conquer militarily a place the size of Europe in the 16th century.
Also armed aspects applied to indigenous tribes for their own security and for the trading companies each had it's own para-military ....not sure a handful of ships and a very few king's own qualifies as an invading force.

That said France, Britain and Russia were imperialists and Russia in particular was brutal in its quest for furs ...really to the point of enslaving locals.
But then indigenous tribes enslaved each other. Such a peaceable bunch H Sapiens :roll:

Another situation that comes to mind is the migration south and west of the agricultural Bantu in S Africa away from the military pressure of Shaka Zulu to occupy lands lightly traversed by an older hunter gatherer culture the Bushmen who'd been there forever.
Was that a military invasion?
Yes by Shaka Zulu to displace the Bantu who would not be engulfed.
Not sure about the Bantu moving into areas not cultivated. :ask:

Thanks for listing so many reasons why arms are necessary. I never disputed that. If anything, you are just belabouring the point I already made when I wrote that "ignoring the fact that they were armed leads to the misleading impression that these powerful traders would have succeeded without some sort of military facilities". And yes, there were good reasons aplenty when they were used in anger or merely waved about as a warning of what would happen if the bearers of those arms did not get their way.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#17  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 27, 2020 4:10 pm

Hermit wrote:
Although support for unification was massive among Austrians, more than 60% of the population was opposed to it in 1933.


Can you source that for me as all the places I'm reading clearly state the opposite: that the majority was in favour of German reunification, and that the Anschluss regime was supported by the majority until the end of the war.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#18  Postby OlivierK » Feb 27, 2020 7:56 pm

Hermit wrote:After the annexation came the plebiscite. It was rigged, of course. Thousands of voters were disenfranchised first on the grounds of being social democrats Jews or any other reason for which they might be suspected to vote against the annexation. The ballot sheet itself graphically betrays that it was rigged.

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Fixed image.
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#19  Postby OlivierK » Feb 27, 2020 7:58 pm

What about the occupation of Antarctica?
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Re: Non-military invasions and conquests in history

#20  Postby felltoearth » Feb 27, 2020 8:37 pm

Fucking penguins. :nono:
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