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Cito di Pense wrote:
My premise is not nearly as fucked as yours is, since you're trying to re-define the word "invasion".
In Sitchu wrote:
No I'm not. I'm giving the dictionary definition of it and applying it. But since you brought it up, are you suggesting that nationalism be applied to this situation? Go ahead, be my guest.
(My reply is to your message before you edited it).
In Sitchu wrote:Spearthrower,
I don't know why you're still saying that I haven't defined the word invasion. I have. I gave you the dictionary definition.
Spearthrower wrote:
I would assume that having listed the dictionary definitions, you'd want to set about eliding those which are irrelevant to the concerned topic, not trying to find ways in which the quirkiest definitions can be sufficiently ambiguous to offer some form of response to your OP.
Spearthrower wrote:
Let's apply it to this situation, as if I haven't done so already.
You can look it up here :
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/invasion?s=t
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/colloc ... h/invasion
In Sitchu wrote:
Connotations aside, and sticking only to the facts...
* There is a large number of people from outside Greece, trying to get into Greece.
* The government of Greece has not invited them into their country, nor given them permission to do so, nor given even the vaguest indication or hint that they would be allowed in.
* The government of Greece is employing military methods to keep them out.
* Locals also do not want them in their country and have taken action to try and keep them out.
* There have been reports of those trying to enter Greece using violence at the border.
In Sitchu wrote:Earlier you were talking about how if you're invited it means it's not an invasion. You can't say that in this case. Now you're saying that Greece is acting against international law.
In Sitchu wrote:You'll have to forgive my insistence on being pedantic, but it looks like an invasion.
In Sitchu wrote: Again, my opinion is not set in stone, but you haven't given me any reason to see it differently, at least according to any of your arguments.
In Sitchu wrote:But even if I go along with your premise (which I don't), if Greece wants to say screw international law, then that is a breaking of their agreement with other countries.
In Sitchu wrote: But once they say screw international law, it's now a matter of Greece deciding what it wants for itself, and Greece appears to be undergoing an attempted invasion by "non natives".
In Sitchu wrote:Your argument that international law has anything to do with this is irrelevant, as Greece has decided to say screw it. Now it's between Greece, those trying to get in, and the dictionary.
Spearthrower wrote:In Sitchu wrote:I'm rather interested in looking at non-military invasions and conquests throughout history, if anyone has any good examples.
Both 'invasion' and 'conquest' necessarily suggest the military component.
Perhaps you want to suggest a specific instance of the kind of thing you're interested in?
Not meant to insinuate anything, but this forum has a track record of attracting certain types of 'interested parties' so please excuse me for imagining that you're imagining Muslim migration to Europe as being an example of the kind of thing.
In Sitchu wrote:I'm merely trying to establish whether or not the situation meets the definition of an invasion.
In Sitchu wrote:By the way you really need to keep up with events. Greece is using their military and there has been friction with locals. Google is your friend.
In Sitchu wrote:I'm certainly not convinced by your arguments spearthrower.
In Sitchu wrote:I'm not sure how one would consider immigration to be an invasion.
In Sitchu wrote:What I'm doing is suggesting that perhaps immigration on a very large scale (as with our example), under the circumstances in which it is occurring in this particular case (referring to the fact that the gov and locals do not want them to enter Greece), could be considered an invasion. A non military one.
tuco wrote:That is a good point, Hermit, however, there are also migrants among them.
In Sitchu wrote:...it really is starting to look as though this is a non military invasion, based on the dictionary definition.
In Sitchu wrote:
Again, my opinion is not set in stone, but it really is starting to look as though this is a non military invasion, based on the dictionary definition.
In Sitchu wrote:
And why is Erdogan saying that millions will flood into Europe? Do you know?
In Sitchu wrote:S
Don't you think?
tuco wrote:
I mean that some of them are not refugees but migrants so your argument, that refugees cannot invade, doest not cover the anti-invasion argument fully. As I predicted and as we've just seen in post #154.
tuco wrote:
I mean that some of them are not refugees but migrants so your argument, that refugees cannot invade, doest not cover the anti-invasion argument fully. As I predicted and as we've just seen in post #154.
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