Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

Niall Ferguson v Pankaj Mishra: battle of the historians

Discussion and analysis of past events and their causes and effects.

Moderators: Spinozasgalt, Mazille, reddix

Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

 
 

Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

#1  Postby cavarka9 » Nov 16, 2011 4:46 pm

Be ready with a dictionary atleast.History degree is out of reach.


Left vs Right.

Niall Ferguson v Pankaj Mishra: battle of the historians

The two academics are having a spat. Is it time for them to step outside and settle it once and for all?

reddit this

Patrick Barkham
Patrick Barkham
guardian.co.uk, Monday 14 November 2011 20.00 GMT
Article history

Mishra v Ferguson
It's Mishra v Ferguson Photograph: Corbis; Christian Sinibalde

It is shaping up to be the tastiest historical scrap since Rob Newman's comedy professor character compared the girlfriend of David Baddiel's don to Peter Beardsley. The warring academics, beloved of 1990s students for their "that's you, that is " repartee, have made way for Niall Ferguson and Pankaj Mishra, after the latter likened Ferguson to Tom Buchanan in the Great Gatsby.

As with all the best academic spats, spectators are advised to equip themselves with a dictionary and a history degree to follow the action.

Mishra, the Indian author and essayist, argued in the London Review of Books that Ferguson was "homo atlanticus redux", a "retailer of emollient tales about the glorious past" whose books "are known less for their original scholarly contribution than for containing some provocative counterfactuals". Summing up Ferguson's latest tome, Civilisation: The West and the Rest, as "gallimaufry", Mishra accused the TV historian and Harvard scholar of ignoring facts that complicate his narrative of Western dominance, such as Muslim contributions to science. Ferguson's acknowledgment of colonial misdeeds was "very selective" and he was "immune ... to humour and irony".

Ferguson responded with a letter to the "notoriously left-leaning" coterie at the LRB, raging that Mishra's critique was "a crude attempt at character assassination" that "mendaciously misrepresents my work but also strongly implies that I am a racist". Mishra, huffed Ferguson, "owes me a public apology" for his "libellous and dishonest article".

It briefly looked as if Mishra would pour cold water on the flames. "Ferguson is no racist," he responded, before laying into his "pathological" instinct to "bow down before the conqueror of the moment" and tendency to say "whatever seems resonant and persuasive at any given hour". Time to settle this in court/the playground/outside?



For the actual review, read below.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v33/n21/pankaj-mis ... h-this-man


I am not a fan of either mishra or fergusan.
well, I have always felt that we are not limited by our compassion or by our passion or resources but by our economy.
User avatar
cavarka9
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: cant say
Posts: 2643

Country: India
India (in)

Re: Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

#2  Postby UtilityMonster » Nov 16, 2011 6:38 pm

I liked the Ascent of Money by Ferguson. I was thinking about reading Civilisation, as I was under the impression that it sort of defended colonialism. I thought that might be interesting. Haven't even heard of Mishra prior to this post. I'll check him out.

And...

Just looked up Mishra's work. Can't say it looks interesting on its face.
The question is not, "Can they reason?" nor, "Can they talk?" but rather, "Can they suffer?"
User avatar
UtilityMonster
 
Posts: 1125
Age: 21
Male

Country: United States
United States (us)

Re: Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

#3  Postby smudge » Nov 16, 2011 6:55 pm

Ferguson did a TV show here in the UK (for the BBC or Chan 4) based on his Civilisation book. I taped it. Watched the first two and a half as I remmember. I just could not stop shouting at the TV so I stopped watching it. He just seemed so right wing it was ridiculous. His 'history' was clearly cherry picked to shoehorn in selected points he wished to bang home. As such it was inaccurate (by omission). And his points were feeble and ill thought out anyway.
All in all I thought it was a total pile of crap!

Not familiar with Mishra.
User avatar
smudge
 
Posts: 665
Male

Country: UK
United Kingdom (uk)

Re: Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

#4  Postby cavarka9 » Nov 16, 2011 9:43 pm

smudge wrote:Ferguson did a TV show here in the UK (for the BBC or Chan 4) based on his Civilisation book. I taped it. Watched the first two and a half as I remmember. I just could not stop shouting at the TV so I stopped watching it. He just seemed so right wing it was ridiculous. His 'history' was clearly cherry picked to shoehorn in selected points he wished to bang home. As such it was inaccurate (by omission). And his points were feeble and ill thought out anyway.
All in all I thought it was a total pile of crap!

Not familiar with Mishra.

he is crap too
well, I have always felt that we are not limited by our compassion or by our passion or resources but by our economy.
User avatar
cavarka9
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: cant say
Posts: 2643

Country: India
India (in)

Re: Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

#5  Postby VictorTheSixth » Nov 16, 2011 10:51 pm

Ferguson did a good job in Ascent of Money. I can't say anything else about him, though I will say this it cannot compare to The Patriot's Guide to History. It was recommended by Glenn Beck and is offensive to the extreme. For example, the Indian's deserved their genocide, Manifest Destiny was correct (damn the Mexicans who objected to us taking over their homelands seeing as how "God demanded America to be as it is"), and there was a whole thing about "dangerous negros".
VictorTheSixth
 
Posts: 502

United States (us)

Re: Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

#6  Postby willhud9 » Nov 27, 2011 6:43 pm

Well historically speaking, the Native Americans were not exactly peaceful, willing to have diplomatic relationships with the white men. Granted, I do not think they deserved genocide, that's never the answer, but I feel our history books make it seem like the trials the Indians went through were completely, 100% white man's fault and the Indians were nature loving hippies who just wanted peace, but became suddenly aggressive and war-like because of the colonists.
‎"The only incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible." ~Albert Einstein
"you sound like an extremist...typical of you. I'm done" -Facebook friend; after a debate on Evolution vs. ID
User avatar
willhud9
 
Name: William
Posts: 4326
Age: 20
Male

Country: United States
United States (us)

Re: Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

 
 

Re: Right wing vs Left Wing Historians

#7  Postby smudge » Nov 27, 2011 7:37 pm

willhud9 wrote:Well historically speaking, the Native Americans were not exactly peaceful, willing to have diplomatic relationships with the white men. Granted, I do not think they deserved genocide, that's never the answer, but I feel our history books make it seem like the trials the Indians went through were completely, 100% white man's fault and the Indians were nature loving hippies who just wanted peace, but became suddenly aggressive and war-like because of the colonists.



So are you of the opinion that if only Montezuma and Atahuallpa had co-operated more fully with Cortes and Pizarro the Aztecs and Incas would have been able to negotiate a fair and peaceful settlement? Are you suggesting that of only Geronimo, Cochise, Red Cloud, Sitting Bull and Dull Knife et al had adopted purely peaceful protest (as demonstrated by Gandhi) against the invading Europeans they may have saved their people, culture and land?

I fear you may be mistaken....

;)
User avatar
smudge
 
Posts: 665
Male

Country: UK
United Kingdom (uk)


Return to History

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest