How did one bloke, not even able to bend spoons, manage to persuade so many people that what he was saying was true? Also, were the people he persuaded already religious?

I'd just like to hear the opinions of anybody who knows anything about the emergence of this religion. Thanks.

If you want to read a book, I recommend this classic:

W. Montgomery Watt: Muhammad: Prophet and Statesman (Amazon)

All I know is, that every religion or social movement of any kind which has taken off, did so because a large number of people were unhappy with what was available to them elsewhere. Combine a perceived need, with a good salesperson, and expanding resources (most particularly secular military power) in the hands of "believers," and you get success.

Try to start a new religion, or even just sell snack food, amongst people who have plenty and have satisfaction in their lives, and you are unlikely to thrive.

Of one thing I am certain: it has never been because of "magic."

jamest wrote:How did one bloke, not even able to bend spoons, manage to persuade so many people that what he was saying was true? Also, were the people he persuaded already religious?

I'd just like to hear the opinions of anybody who knows anything about the emergence of this religion. Thanks.

Sounds like Uri Geller. He couldn't bend spoons either.

igorfrankensteen wrote:All I know is, that every religion or social movement of any kind which has taken off, did so because a large number of people were unhappy with what was available to them elsewhere. Combine a perceived need, with a good salesperson, and expanding resources (most particularly secular military power) in the hands of "believers," and you get success.

I don't get it, because the region Islam emerged within was fairly close to the centres of Judaism, Christianity and Hinduism. So this 'need' you talk about was already being fulfilled and [I'm sure] there were all sorts of "good salespeople" passing through on a regular basis. Indeed, Islam draws from the bible, which seems to imply that the populace favoured Judaism or Christianity.

jamest wrote:

igorfrankensteen wrote:All I know is, that every religion or social movement of any kind which has taken off, did so because a large number of people were unhappy with what was available to them elsewhere. Combine a perceived need, with a good salesperson, and expanding resources (most particularly secular military power) in the hands of "believers," and you get success.

I don't get it, because the region Islam emerged within was fairly close to the centres of Judaism, Christianity and Hinduism. So this 'need' you talk about was already being fulfilled and [I'm sure] there were all sorts of "good salespeople" passing through on a regular basis. Indeed, Islam draws from the bible, which seems to imply that the populace favoured Judaism or Christianity.

There are plenty of books detailing the history of Islam, not all of them written by apologists. I'm sure you can find them with a brief internet search.

To address your last question about the proximity to other major world religions, that is correct. But the nomadic tribes of the Arabian peninsula were mostly pagan at the time of Islam's emergence. And while they lived alongside Jewish tribes and Christians, they were adherents of neither. Much of the rest of the history is to do with Arab inter-tribal politics and warfare, which is explored in some detail in the aforementioned texts.

Well, if the 'pagans' of the region were disinterested with the other religions, why did they readily buy into what Mohammad said? That bit doesn't stack up.

I wonder if Gengis Khan took a leaf from Mo's book. By tackling small weaker tribes and forcing them to join or die his army grew at a rate of knots, those supplicants soon realised they actually possessed power like they never had; the movement snowballed as new 'enemies' saw a chance to live, but maintain pride.
The prophet part of Mo's plan may not have been opened up to anyone for a very long time, perhaps not until he was about to die.

disclaimer: very likely bs, and a touch OT, but I like it.

Was 'Mo' actively engaged in creating an army and forcing people to believe what he said?

jamest wrote:Well, if the 'pagans' of the region were disinterested with the other religions, why did they readily buy into what Mohammad said? That bit doesn't stack up.

I suppose Islam must be true then.
Yep.

Now that that's solved, let me ask:
Why did so many people buy into the stupid crap that crackpot from Nazareth said?

Scar wrote:

jamest wrote:Well, if the 'pagans' of the region were disinterested with the other religions, why did they readily buy into what Mohammad said? That bit doesn't stack up.

I suppose Islam must be true then.

I've got no agenda with Islam, as I know very-little about it.

Now that that's solved, let me ask:
Why did so many people buy into the stupid crap that crackpot from Nazareth said?

He bent a few spoons, of course.

jamest wrote:How did one bloke, not even able to bend spoons, manage to persuade so many people that what he was saying was true? Also, were the people he persuaded already religious?

I'd just like to hear the opinions of anybody who knows anything about the emergence of this religion. Thanks.

Not that rare a phenomenon - Mormonism, Scientology, Cao Dai, "Moonie" Unification Church - the list of religions invented by individuals is nearly endless, and continues through modern times.

Weaver wrote:

jamest wrote:How did one bloke, not even able to bend spoons, manage to persuade so many people that what he was saying was true? Also, were the people he persuaded already religious?

I'd just like to hear the opinions of anybody who knows anything about the emergence of this religion. Thanks.

Not that rare a phenomenon - Mormonism, Scientology, Cao Dai, "Moonie" Unification Church - the list of religions invented by individuals is nearly endless, and continues through modern times.

Aren't they just new branches of a religion, as opposed to the emergence of a new religion?

not uncommon movement if we were to put aside the issue of faith, genghis khan is another example, I think the geography from europe to india,china is basically an open territory, meaning that if you have horses, you would win. What is interesting abt islam is the incredible speed with which it grew, I believe religions are empires disguising themselves as faith, they all have a social code. i think, if i am right, not too sure, that within 6 yrs of mohammads death, it conquered persian empire, very quickly conquered byzantine empire, lobotomised indian civilization (math and debates were pretty popular before islam). Not to mention, the longest surviving group of atheists in much the modern sense existed in India, died out somewhere after 16th century I suppose.

jamest wrote:

Weaver wrote:

jamest wrote:How did one bloke, not even able to bend spoons, manage to persuade so many people that what he was saying was true? Also, were the people he persuaded already religious?

I'd just like to hear the opinions of anybody who knows anything about the emergence of this religion. Thanks.

Not that rare a phenomenon - Mormonism, Scientology, Cao Dai, "Moonie" Unification Church - the list of religions invented by individuals is nearly endless, and continues through modern times.

Aren't they just new branches of a religion, as opposed to the emergence of a new religion?

Scientilogy, Cao Dai and the Moonies certainly aren't - and but Islam is.

It comes down to how does one define "new religion" vs split, sect, or cult. Christianity, after all, is just a new branch of Judaism.

Weaver wrote:Scientilogy, Cao Dai and the Moonies certainly aren't - and but Islam is.

It comes down to how does one define "new religion" vs split, sect, or cult. Christianity, after all, is just a new branch of Judaism.

Strictly, so is Islam.

hackenslash wrote:

Weaver wrote:Scientilogy, Cao Dai and the Moonies certainly aren't - and but Islam is.

It comes down to how does one define "new religion" vs split, sect, or cult. Christianity, after all, is just a new branch of Judaism.

Strictly, so is Islam.

Probably opening up a huge can of worms, but why are Muslims and Jews at each other's throats so much, if they're essentially the same religion? What are the big problems which have caused the divide?

Why are ethnic Albanians and Serbs at each other's throats?

People have a hard time hating total strangers - but neighbors who share some but not all traits are easy to hate.

The narcissism of small differences - like football fans. You often hate the nearest team to you, not the furthest. So Chelsea fans don't have much a gripe with Sheffield Wednesday.

You're both telling me that there are no significant reasons/differences for all of the hatred and bloodshed that's occurred? Fuck me, I at least thought they were arguing over something worthy of a fight.