William Tyndale was regarded at his time as a brilliant scholar. Fluent in many languages and an astute theologian of his time. Against all odds, the laws of England, and the powerful Roman Catholic Church, he translated the Bible into English. His translation from the Greek and Hebrew texts (instead of the Latin Vulgate) was so good that the 50 scholars assigned to translate the King James Bible 80 years later could scarcely improve upon his work. He was finally captured, tried and executed for his work. This mans legacy of what he did is astounding in its lasting impact on the world.

Those of you familiar with his story please comment.

Thank you

Do you have a paper to write?

No paper to write. Most historians regard Oct.17, 1517 as the start of the reformation. While that is an arbitrary but significant date, I have been doing a great deal of reading about the reformation and the time period involved (this last year being the 500th anniversary of the event). Many of the "leaders" of all that went on were just fascinating to me. Mankind was headed one direction and then it took a major turn in just a few decades. I just thought I would start a discussion about it and get the perspective of members of this forum and see what they had to say.

Thank you

Chris Putnam wrote:No paper to write. Most historians regard Oct.17, 1517 as the start of the reformation. While that is an arbitrary but significant date, I have been doing a great deal of reading about the reformation and the time period involved (this last year being the 500th anniversary of the event). Many of the "leaders" of all that went on were just fascinating to me. Mankind was headed one direction and then it took a major turn in just a few decades. I just thought I would start a discussion about it and get the perspective of members of this forum and see what they had to say.

Thank you

Well, for one thing, the Reformation is only a major shift in a religious sense.
If anything it is the Renaissance and the Enlightenment that caused a drastic change in Western knowledge and society.

Secondly, october 31st is the day Martin Luther wrote his theses and send them to archbishop of Mainz-Magdeburg. It is this day that is commonly considered the start of the Reformation and only by those who fail to understand that procesesses like the Reformation don't start on any single particular day.

On March 6th, 1998, "The Big Lebowski" was released. The Reformation pales in comparison.

Thank you Thomas Eshuis. Martin Luther stated that many before him laid the groundwork for what he did. Jan Hus was burned at the stake 102 years earlier for teaching his "heresies". It is reported that he said to his executioners as they were about to light the fire "Now we will cook the goose." (Huss in Bohemian means goose.) "Yes", replied Huss, "but there will come an eagle in a hundred years that you will not reach." Martin Luther believed he was the fulfillment of this prophesy.

But the purpose of my starting this thread was to see if others had anything to add about William Tyndale. I know there are several documentaries about him on youtube, but I have not watched them. His story is one of great courage, which anyone should be able to respect. At his execution he was strangled with a chain before he was burned, a courtesy the Church extended to great scholars who were to be burned at the stake. What remained of him was blown to bits with gun powder.

Chris Putnam wrote:Thank you Thomas Eshuis. Martin Luther stated that many before him laid the groundwork for what he did.

That's true for virtually any 'great' historical figure.
Ideas don't arise in a vacuum.

Chris Putnam wrote: Jan Hus was burned at the stake 102 years earlier for teaching his "heresies".

And Cathars were burned by the hundreds even earlier.

Chris Putnam wrote: It is reported that he said to his executioners as they were about to light the fire "Now we will cook the goose." (Huss in Bohemian means goose.) "Yes", replied Huss, "but there will come an eagle in a hundred years that you will not reach." Martin Luther believed he was the fulfillment of this prophesy.

People all around the world have and continue to claim they fulfill prophecies. Doesn't mean they actually do.

Chris Putnam wrote:
But the purpose of my starting this thread was to see if others had anything to add about William Tyndale.

He's one of the many people who tried to make the bible accesible and criticise the Catholic church.

Chris Putnam wrote: I know there are several documentaries about him on youtube, but I have not watched them. His story is one of great courage,

Not particularly. Again, many people have preceded him.

Chris Putnam wrote: which anyone should be able to respect.

Not really.

Chris Putnam wrote: At his execution he was strangled with a chain before he was burned, a courtesy the Church extended to great scholars who were to be burned at the stake. What remained of him was blown to bits with gun powder.

And Jeanne d'Arc was burned on the stake for wearin men's clothes.

Respect his courage? He was strangled and burned because of a fucking fairy tale. Not only that, he knew damn well what would happen to him but he did it anyway. What an idiot. Honestly. That goes for any and all "martyrs". Fucking deluded morons, the job lot.

laklak wrote:Respect his courage? He was strangled and burned because of a fucking fairy tale. Not only that, he knew damn well what would happen to him but he did it anyway. What an idiot. Honestly. That goes for any and all "martyrs". Fucking deluded morons, the job lot.

Do you think they should die for this?

Not at all. However, I don't respect that sort of idiocy.

laklak wrote:Not at all. However, I don't respect that sort of idiocy.

Ok. I accept your response. I aqccept that people who are willing to die for their faith do so because they truly believe it is true. This is typical of religious people who believe in heaven and hell. People in history have undoubtedly died for something that was not true, but their willingness to die for it tells me that they certainly believed it was true. I don't know that it means they are idiots. Some of them might have been very intelligent. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Galileo was forced to recant his discovery or be executed for heresy. Apparently he recanted. In his case he knew he had the truth, but clearly did not see this as something to die for. He probably did not attach any eternal significance for his soul to his work in this area. Interestingly enough the Roman Catholic Church only recently admitted that they were perhaps a little hard on old Galileo.

Chris Putnam wrote:

laklak wrote:Respect his courage? He was strangled and burned because of a fucking fairy tale. Not only that, he knew damn well what would happen to him but he did it anyway. What an idiot. Honestly. That goes for any and all "martyrs". Fucking deluded morons, the job lot.

Do you think they should die for this?

That's irrelevant to the question of whether they were brave.
By your reasoning, the people who flew planes in the WTC were also brave.

Chris Putnam wrote:People in history have undoubtedly died for something that was not true, but their willingness to die for it tells me that they certainly believed it was true.

So what? That doesn't mean their beliefs were rationally justified.

Chris Putnam wrote: I don't know that it means they are idiots.

At the very least they were acting irrationaly.

Chris Putnam wrote: Some of them might have been very intelligent.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

Chris Putnam wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Galileo was forced to recant his discovery or be executed for heresy. Apparently he recanted. In his case he knew he had the truth, but clearly did not see this as something to die for. He probably did not attach any eternal significance for his soul to his work in this area. Interestingly enough the Roman Catholic Church only recently admitted that they were perhaps a little hard on old Galileo.

Maybe he did not beleive in the concept of a soul in the first place.

This is Galileo. When threatened with a hideous death by rabid Papist priests for contradicting scripture, he recanted. Galileo was smart. Be like Galileo.

There are certainly things worth dying for, but whether the Big Bad Wolf in the Three Little Pigs is the One True Wolf, or if that honor belongs to the Big Bad Wolf from Little Red Riding Hood isn't one of those things.

Ok. Back to William Tyndale anyone?

To what end?

The dude got killed for translating fairy tales. Tragic. In that context, the dude doesn't sound particularly clever at all in practical terms.

Now what?

Chris Putnam wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Galileo was forced to recant his discovery or be executed for heresy. Apparently he recanted.

Who would ever take such a recantation seriously, except a complete zealot or those making the brutish threats in question?

In his case he knew he had the truth, but clearly did not see this as something to die for.

I wonder whether Augustine of Hippo would disapprove. Didn't he say that the truth is like a lion? You don't need to defend it, just let it loose and it'll fight for itself. I think that's naive in many cases, but it worked out pretty well here. Nobody today takes Galileo's recantation as being sincere or meaningful, whilst pretty much everyone* now acknowledges that the Church was attempting in vain to enforce demonstrable errors through the means of thuggish threats and the willingness to resort to grisly slayings. *As you say, including the Roman Catholic Church itself.

His translation allowed ordinary folk (who could read) to see what was written for themselves, weather this helped towards the eventual enlightenment period I don't know. But their beliefs where real enough at the time and certainly a big part of the politics of the time so they weren't throwing their lives away on a fairy tale by any stretch.