A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

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A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#1  Postby quas » May 05, 2018 4:00 pm

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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#2  Postby THWOTH » May 05, 2018 10:09 pm

When it comes to explanations of natural phenomena I prefer facts and science and shit. The Koran is not a medical textbook.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#3  Postby Dynalon » May 06, 2018 1:55 am

The interpretation is a little dubious but if it is seen charitably then it's still not too surprising that people could know / infer certain things about anatomy like this in the early medieval period. I would be more impressed with something along the lines of how Erwin Schrödinger predicted what DNA would be like from first principles.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#4  Postby quas » May 06, 2018 3:44 am

THWOTH wrote:When it comes to explanations of natural phenomena I prefer facts and science and shit. The Koran is not a medical textbook.

It prescribes the healthiest diet.

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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#5  Postby Dynalon » May 06, 2018 6:41 am

quas wrote:
THWOTH wrote:When it comes to explanations of natural phenomena I prefer facts and science and shit. The Koran is not a medical textbook.

It prescribes the healthiest diet.



Even if everything she's saying is right, the Qur'an also says that Earth does not move:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/27/index.htm#61

A bit less cherry-picking is advisable, yes?
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#6  Postby Pebble » May 06, 2018 7:22 am

Dynalon wrote:The interpretation is a little dubious but if it is seen charitably then it's still not too surprising that people could know / infer certain things about anatomy like this in the early medieval period. I would be more impressed with something along the lines of how Erwin Schrödinger predicted what DNA would be like from first principles.



For charitable read 'through the lens of rationalisation', for a little dubious read post hoc - ergo propter hoc.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#7  Postby Animavore » May 06, 2018 7:27 am

Interesting translation she's going for there, when most other translations are closer to this.

22:5 O mankind! if ye are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make (it) clear for you.


The authors seem to think the sperm mixes with the blood which emanates from a woman before she menstruates it. I'm guessing the "little lump of flesh" refers to miscarried foetuses. Which leads on to -

And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward We bring you forth as infants, then (give you growth) that ye attain your full strength.


Also translated -

And We settle in the wombs whom We will for a specified term, then We bring you out as a child, and then [We develop you] that you may reach your [time of] maturity.


And -

And whatever We will [to be born] We cause to rest in the [mothers'] wombs for a term set [by Us], and then We bring you forth as infants and [allow you to live] so that [some of] you might attain to maturity: for among you are such as are caused to die [in childhood], just as many a one of you is reduced in old age to a most abject state, ceasing to know anything of what he once knew so well.


They seem to be at least aware that a certain number of unborn die as miscarriages and those who are "selected" grow through to maturity.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#8  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 06, 2018 8:28 am

And the sum disappears into a puddle. Sperm comes from the spine. Great science. The koran does not mention eggs. It is the sperm that attaches itself to the womb. (according to the rag).
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#9  Postby Fallible » May 06, 2018 8:51 am

Quas, what's your point?
Sorry that you think you had it rough in the first world.
You ought to get out of that sooner than later.
Knowledge has turned into a trap; you have to slow down.
Get out of your head and spend less time alone.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#10  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 06, 2018 8:53 am

Just what I was thinking. Koran science has been debunked so often. :ask:
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#11  Postby LucidFlight » May 06, 2018 9:56 am

Lots of very positive YouTube comments accompanying that first video, praising Allah, etc., and not one of them mentioned that she wasn't covering her head.

Adnan Itani:
I can't stop admiring this honest lady. Only people with blind eyes and hearts are unable to see the truth in the Qur'an. May Allah S.W.T quide you to the path of Islam.


However, Derdedag responds:
I bet this "honest" lady is not a Muslim herself. She is just being paid for presenting this deception.


I think Derdedag would have been more convinced had she looked more like a Muslim and wore a head covering. But surely he cannot be the intended audience. I will admit, I felt as if I was watching a report on one of those slick 24-hour news channels, or maybe a documentary on the BBC or Channel 4. Very high production quality, meant to appeal to the Western mind set, I think.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#12  Postby Thomas Eshuis » May 06, 2018 10:24 am

Fallible wrote:Quas, what's your point?

Islam bad m'kay...
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#13  Postby THWOTH » May 07, 2018 12:16 pm

Animavore wrote:...

They seem to be at least aware that a certain number of unborn die as miscarriages and those who are "selected" grow through to maturity.

And that the gestation period itself rests upon the will of Allah rather than being a plain biological fact determined through regular evolutionary processes. It just goes to show that warring camel traders without a germ theory of medicine are not a reliable source on human reproduction, no matter how 'charitable' an interpretation of a Koranic verse may be.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#14  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 07, 2018 12:29 pm

Th full islam story. It is a good laugh if nothing else.

Embryology in the Qur'an

The three main major errors:

The main errors can be summarised as follows and are further discussed in the rest of this article.

1). A number of verses collectively demonstrate a belief that the earliest, nutfah stage of development is made of semen, perhaps mixed with a female fluid, which is placed in the womb for a known term, and where it undergoes various stages of development (as also taught by Galen and in the Jewish Talmud). See this article for the most comprehensive explanation and evidence. Futhermore, there is no sign that the author of the Qur'an was aware of the female egg (ovum).

In reality, a single sperm cell penetrates and fuses with the female ovum. This fertilised egg, called a zygote, is then pushed down the fallopian tube for a few days. On the way, cell division begins, and this multi-celled cluster, now called a blastocyst, implants in the uterus (womb).

2). The embryo is then congealed blood. All the classical tafsirs (commentaries) understood the meaning of 'alaqah to be blood or congealed blood, and clotted blood is a definition of the word in classical Arabic dictionaries. Regardless of alternative meanings for this arabic word, it would be very foolish even to use a word whose main definitions include an explicit biological meaning (clotted blood) in a description of a biological process (embryology) if that meaning was not the one you intended. The choice of word now causes a well justified suspicion of inaccuracy, and for centuries misled people into thinking that the embryo is at one stage congealed blood (an actual embryo is at no point blood or a clot of blood). Similarly, for the same reason it would also be foolish to use this word while intending blood clot as a mere visual analogy.

3). Bones are formed before being clothed with flesh. In fact cartilage models of the bones start to form at the same time as and in parallel with surrounding muscles, and this cartilage is literally replaced with bone.

The author of the Qur'an imagined a sequence of stages, which when examined without the false definitions and arbitrary assumptions made by apologists, clearly has no resemblance to the actual development process of a child in the womb. Someone with a modern, scientific knowledge of embryology can instead marvel at the exquisite complexity that results from a process of co-ordinated cell differentiation and signalling, encoded in our genetic instruction set by millions of years of evolution.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#15  Postby aban57 » May 07, 2018 12:34 pm

Fallible wrote:Quas, what's your point?


Preaching maybe ?
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#16  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 07, 2018 1:50 pm

To whom? Pretty deaf ears here for this sort of stuff.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#17  Postby Blackadder » May 09, 2018 10:05 pm

The Quran is no more a textbook on embryology than Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is a maintenance manual for a nuclear power station.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#18  Postby CarlPierce » May 22, 2018 11:26 am

Blackadder wrote:The Quran is no more a textbook on embryology than Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is a maintenance manual for a nuclear power station.


You just need to swop the letters round in the right way.
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Re: A sperm’s Journey and Embryology in Quran

#19  Postby laklak » May 22, 2018 5:45 pm

To be fair it's no stupider then what any number of evangelicals believe.
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