Afterlife speculations

Split from Sarah Haider thread

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the mosques...

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Re: Afterlife speculations

#181  Postby BlackBart » May 05, 2017 10:54 pm

Dark energy wrote:
How about the towers supporting heaven? The pool where the sun goes?


the pool thing is metaphor


A metaphor for what?
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#182  Postby Dark energy » May 05, 2017 10:58 pm

I posted it for you before when you waved the verse away. You evidently do not want to address the points in the video. Quelle surprise.


the verse in surah kahf(cave) refers to the experiences of character called dul-qarneyn,this debate is old, repetitive and i am not going to indulge in it. it is a product of translation errors ,all i say is it is refering to a time of sunset and not a location.

a better reference is here
http://azblogtalk.blogspot.com/2016/01/ ... ehood.html
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#183  Postby BlackBart » May 05, 2017 11:07 pm

Couldn't this dumbfuck Allah produce anything better than obscure jibberish? That's what happens when you hire an illiterate kiddy fiddler as a dictation secretary I suppose. Stupid is as stupid does.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#184  Postby Fallible » May 05, 2017 11:09 pm

Bart, why don't you find the ladies section and have a nice gossip?
Sorry that you think you had it rough in the first world.
You ought to get out of that sooner than later.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#185  Postby Dark energy » May 05, 2017 11:13 pm

BlackBart wrote:
Dark energy wrote:
How about the towers supporting heaven? The pool where the sun goes?


the pool thing is metaphor


A metaphor for what?


it describes a specific scene.

well,the quran is highly poetical book and admittedly says many times that it uses examples and similes and some people find enlightenment through them and others dont just get it.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#186  Postby BlackBart » May 05, 2017 11:13 pm

Fallible wrote:Bart, why don't you find the ladies section and have a nice gossip?


Because the disguise didn't work out too well :shifty:

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Re: Afterlife speculations

#187  Postby Fallible » May 05, 2017 11:15 pm

Don't be so hard on yourself. Look at LucidFlight. :?
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#188  Postby Matthew Shute » May 05, 2017 11:16 pm

Dark energy wrote:
If you think about belief systems in terms of attractiveness, you're going about in the wrong way.

Also what's so attractive about (especially the monotheistic) religions? Enjoying most of the pleasures of the flesh lead you to hell.


i think monotheistic religions are the closest to truth


A man flying "up" to paradise on a winged donkey-like creature called Buraq, the sun descending into a muddy spring on earth, a divinely revealed holy book that is as clueless on biology as it is on cosmology... all this is closest to the truth? I don't for a second believe you genuinely think that, but if you do, that is pitiable. If you're defending it just to defend it, then it's not about truth at all, is it? It's about trying to win an argument, but in fact you're just flapping around in a foolish manner and making even more of a mockery of this daft religion.

Dark energy wrote:
I posted it for you before when you waved the verse away. You evidently do not want to address the points in the video. Quelle surprise.


the verse in surah kahf(cave) refers to the experiences of character called dul-qarneyn,this debate is old, repetitive and i am not going to indulge in it. it is a product of translation errors ,all i say is it is refering to a time of sunset and not a location.


Ah, so it's no longer a metaphor? Your new line, that the sun only sets in a puddle from Dhul-Qarnayn's perspective, is explicitly addressed and refuted in the very video we're talking about - I even gave you a time stamp. It's also refuted by the hadith I linked you to, in which Muhammad straightforwardly asserts that the sun sets in a muddy puddle.

You won't "indulge" it? Wow, and I thought you were all about trying to get at the truth! Yeah, right.

:what:
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#189  Postby Fallible » May 05, 2017 11:19 pm

He's already explicitly stated that his mind won't be changed no matter what. I'm really at a loss as to what he's really doing here. Even his trolling is a lacklustre affair.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#190  Postby BlackBart » May 05, 2017 11:19 pm

Dark energy wrote:
BlackBart wrote:
Dark energy wrote:
How about the towers supporting heaven? The pool where the sun goes?


the pool thing is metaphor


A metaphor for what?


it describes a specific scene.


What specific scene?


well,the quran is highly poetical book and admittedly says many times that it uses examples and similes and some people find enlightenment through them and others dont just get it.


So why haven't those who 'get it' actually re-writtrn it properly then? Wouldn't an honest God who actually cared for his creations want his 'word' to be clear and unequivocal so everyone can understand it?
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#191  Postby Dark energy » May 05, 2017 11:23 pm

Corneel wrote:
Dark energy wrote:
If you think about belief systems in terms of attractiveness, you're going about in the wrong way.

Also what's so attractive about (especially the monotheistic) religions? Enjoying most of the pleasures of the flesh lead you to hell.


i think monotheistic religions are the closest to truth(if there is any),they also logically make sense more than the polytheistic ones.
i was under the impression that enjoying the pleasures of the flesh is only allowed only with your partner(wife/husband)?

There you go again, thinking about sex (only). What about a fine wine or single malt whisky? Or some nice bacon? Or meat with a creamy sauce?
Also, you say that you think monotheistic religions are the closest to truth. That has nothing to do with attractiveness. So why do you ask what's so attractive about atheism. Most, if not all, atheists will tell you that they believe no religion is anywhere close to the truth, and that's why they are atheists.



you are mixing things up for me.i would love to eat meat with a creamy sauce.nothing wrong with it.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#192  Postby Corneel » May 05, 2017 11:27 pm

Dark energy wrote:
Corneel wrote:
Dark energy wrote:
If you think about belief systems in terms of attractiveness, you're going about in the wrong way.

Also what's so attractive about (especially the monotheistic) religions? Enjoying most of the pleasures of the flesh lead you to hell.


i think monotheistic religions are the closest to truth(if there is any),they also logically make sense more than the polytheistic ones.
i was under the impression that enjoying the pleasures of the flesh is only allowed only with your partner(wife/husband)?

There you go again, thinking about sex (only). What about a fine wine or single malt whisky? Or some nice bacon? Or meat with a creamy sauce?
Also, you say that you think monotheistic religions are the closest to truth. That has nothing to do with attractiveness. So why do you ask what's so attractive about atheism. Most, if not all, atheists will tell you that they believe no religion is anywhere close to the truth, and that's why they are atheists.



you are mixing things up for me.i would love to eat meat with a creamy sauce.nothing wrong with it.

Ah, but it's a problem for jews, who are following a monotheistic religion.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#193  Postby BlackBart » May 05, 2017 11:31 pm

Fallible wrote:He's already explicitly stated that his mind won't be changed no matter what. I'm really at a loss as to what he's really doing here. Even his trolling is a lacklustre affair.


I know... It's a bit like watching Karaoke in a Penge pub - fascinating in it's excruciating ineptitude and lack of self awareness.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#194  Postby romansh » May 05, 2017 11:36 pm

Dark energy wrote: i think monotheistic religions are the closest to truth

That's nice ... and in what way are they closer to the truth than say pantheism or panentheism for that matter?
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#195  Postby Spinozasgalt » May 06, 2017 12:28 am

Dark energy wrote:
Fallible wrote:You still don't understand, or are pretending not to. It's not about choosing something that is attractive. I'm an atheist and I can't be otherwise.


why dont you hang out in the ladies section.i am sure LUCIDFLIGHT has some interesting gossip for you.

Wow.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#196  Postby monkeyboy » May 06, 2017 6:09 am

Dark energy wrote:[
fun fact,majority of scientific breakthroughs were discovered by theists.It is only in the last few decades that being an Atheist become a cool thing.
No, Most of the stuff that religion forbids for people are quite harmful in the long term. for example, Alcohol and cigarattes.Alcohol abuse leads to alcoholism.in real life,islam complements my life and i hate those who take it too far ,distort it,make us look bad and do objectionable things on our behalf.

Ho ho ho. hilarious fact indeed. Of course the large majority of scientific advances came from theists measured over history. Many scientific advances don't upset religion but notions like the earth not being central to the universe etc didn't go down too well at first. Apostasy was and still is in some backward parts of the world, a dangerous position to declare. It can get you killed. Any wonder many atheists don't publicly admit to lacking belief?

Most stuff religion forbids is harmful? Alcohol? Ok, potential harm there but in Christianity, drinking of wine is not just OK but a requirement for the zombie flesh eating ceremony/communion. Where are cigarettes banned? Tobacco hadn't made it out of America by the time the middle eastern nomads were writing their camp fire tales down. What else is banned that's bad for you? Eating pork? Plenty do it, doesn't kill you. Shellfish? Ditto. Homosexuality? No harm there. Come on, name some examples.
We're also encouraged not to kill. Quite explicitly.....apart from all the exceptions which generally turn out to be excuses to kill dissenters, people who don't conform to the rules.
We're told to generally be nice people, don't steal or commit adultery etc but the books tell us about rules for keeping slaves and where to get them. Hardly a recipe for compassion to fellow human beings.
The progress to morals where people can believe what they want, they can do what they want so long as they are not infringing on others etc, that they have equal rights as humans has happened in spite of religion and in particular, the religious texts.
Many laws in Europe and America, actually contravene what is written in the bible for example. Stoning your child to death for being rude and disrespectful to their you won't see you held up as a shining example of virtue.
Pakistan is currently battling the use of outdated punishments being used by backward people invoking sharia law punishments which are at odds with the more progressive laws of the country.

that is why i am here.to learn more about alternate ideas.however,since atheism is a choice,i find it difficulty to take such a position.i just feel there is more to life then this short sojourn.

Why say you are here to learn and then follow up with a dumb statement re atheism being a choice? There's no choosing involved in not believing something. You do or you don't. As I grew up, Christianity was generally fed to me. We prayed at school assemblies and sung hymns. Times like easter and Xmas, the stories were trotted out as though they were fact. Once I got old enough to read it all myself and think about it all, I realised it was complete bollocks. That's not choosing. That's realising that books such as the Bible are flat out wrong about many things, full of outdated morals, contradictory instructions and simply not required.
The notion of a god who created everything (in a manner which would not support life as claimed in the bible and is contradicted by actual evidence) and exists being all powerful but doing fuck all for the people he supposedly loves is frankly completely infantile.

anyway,it was a mistake on my part to call you militant but still militant athiests are a reality, you may or might not agree with them.

Name some and explain the harm they do please. I'll be surprised if it goes beyond upsetting people's ideas. I know it doesn't extend to invading countries and enslaving populations, beheading those who won't stop believing or who express their atheism in the wrong way.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#197  Postby monkeyboy » May 06, 2017 6:11 am

Corneel wrote:
Dark energy wrote:
Fallible wrote:You still don't understand, or are pretending not to. It's not about choosing something that is attractive. I'm an atheist and I can't be otherwise.


why dont you hang out in the ladies section.i am sure LUCIDFLIGHT has some interesting gossip for you.

This is wrong on at least two levels.

I know. LucidFlight rarely has any interesting gossip and as for Fall being a lady :naughty2: :hide:
Last edited by monkeyboy on May 06, 2017 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#198  Postby monkeyboy » May 06, 2017 6:27 am

Dark energy wrote:
If you think about belief systems in terms of attractiveness, you're going about in the wrong way.

Also what's so attractive about (especially the monotheistic) religions? Enjoying most of the pleasures of the flesh lead you to hell.


i think monotheistic religions are the closest to truth(if there is any),they also logically make sense more than the polytheistic ones.

Coming from one who self admittedly hasn't studied them, this is a bit of a daft statement. They don't make sense. They're full of nonsense. Read the books rather than listen to the tradition. There's good reason why the Christian Church resisted the Bible being printed for common people to read.
Read the Quran properly. There's stuff in there that's flat out bullshit. Some has been pointed out to you here already. You're defending it because of the reverence it's been allowed over the years and not through any method of actual honest critique.

i was under the impression that enjoying the pleasures of the flesh is only allowed only with your partner(wife/husband)?

Close but no cigar. You missed out the caveat that those partners are of the opposite gender and that they be married according to the main religions.

I've never been married and am unlikely to be. What's the harm? I've never cheated on a partner, never beaten them, never just run off and left them etc. I've had 3 significant relationships iny life and am on speaking terms with all 3 exes. I've had more casual sex with other people, I've lost count of the numbers. It's all been consensual. Some I've regretted due to people not turning out to be who they seemed at first. No harm done though. Where's the sin? Just people enjoying the pleasures of the flesh. Provided nobody is being made to do something they don't want to, what harm is there?
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#199  Postby Shrunk » May 06, 2017 11:33 am

zulumoose wrote:
Try an envision a line between those to areas that gets anywhere close to your ribs. I can't.


If you look through enough diagrams, you can find one where it looks plausible.

Image


Well, OK.

It's still not the sort of information you'd expect from an omniscient deity. If Allah is wrote the seminal vesicles are located "between the ribs and backbone" on his human anatomy exam, he'd get a failing mark. You'd expect him to do better, since he designed the damn thing.
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Re: Afterlife speculations

#200  Postby Matthew Shute » May 06, 2017 11:47 am

Dark energy wrote:in real life,islam complements my life and i hate those who take it too far ,distort it,make us look bad and do objectionable things on our behalf.


Along with having sex with a nine year old, raiding caravans, and murdering Jews, the would-be prophet Muhammad hated visual art and destroyed statues that he considered to be idols. In his monotheistic fanaticism, he was a barbaric destroyer of culture, too. Who do you suppose these depraved cretins think they're emulating, here?



I'll let one of my favourite counter-apologists inform you.



So when you talk about the Islamists who "take things too far" and make Islam look bad, do you include Muhammad in that?

Don't misunderstand. Muhammad doesn't make you look bad, he only makes himself and his hateful ideology look bad. You only make yourself look bad if you endorse and praise him, knowing the horrendous example he set. If you don't know about the example he set, but you pontificate about it anyway, you merely make yourself look like an ignorant loudmouth.
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