I am Muslim

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I am Muslim

#1  Postby ray » Feb 27, 2010 2:34 pm

hello,

Salam to everyone.

Since this is a Islam section of the forum, you may ask me any question
relating to my ideology which is Islam. I have my own beliefs and you have yours.

I am a Muslim, and a true believer in Allah; and hence, an authorised speaker on His behalf.

If my answer is not to your liking, or, if I don't give a reply, then please dont be offended.

It means either you have asked an insulting question, or, I have already answered it.

I am here only to share views and open up myself to those who sincerly want to know the facts directly from a true believer of God.

I am not here to convert you to Islam. I couldn't care less where you end up after death.

Hell or Paradise are there. If you don't believe in their existence, then thats up to you.

If you reject God, then it is not my life and my eternity that is at stake.

Cheers.
Ray

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Re: I am Muslim

#2  Postby XiledSpawn » Feb 27, 2010 2:37 pm

ray wrote:I have my own beliefs and you have yours.


Do you consider off a tv channel?
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Re: I am Muslim

#3  Postby Imp » Feb 27, 2010 2:37 pm

Oh this didn't take long at all. :popcorn:

So are you just here to preach or are you interested in an actual discussion?
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Re: I am Muslim

#4  Postby dylan » Feb 27, 2010 2:38 pm

Welcome. I'll be thinking about things to ask.
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Re: I am Muslim

#5  Postby amyonyango » Feb 27, 2010 2:49 pm

You'll find all people on here open for discussion, but be prepared! Everyone expects everyone else to provide evidence for their statements that are presented as fact.

Your point of view will be picked apart in seconds if you are unable to provide such evidence.

Other than that, we don't bite (although you may get chewed on for a while!!)

Welcome to RS, please have an open mind and don't give up at the first sign of hardcore debate!

The forum members here have respect for people and we wont insult anyone personally in debate, but your point of view/beliefs/religion are what will be scrutinised. You need to understand the difference and don't take insult of your beliefs as insult to you personally - get it?!

:thumbup:

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Re: I am Muslim

#6  Postby amyonyango » Feb 27, 2010 2:55 pm

Ray,

A question.

Please explain where you believe Allah originated from, how Allah was created or came into being.

What is the point of Allah's existence if so many fundamental Muslims take what they believe to be His word and use it to kill and terrorise?

Thanks Ray,

Amy.
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Re: I am Muslim

#7  Postby ray » Feb 27, 2010 3:00 pm

XiledSpawn wrote:
ray wrote:I have my own beliefs and you have yours.


Do you consider off a tv channel?


You can't deny that you do have some beliefs, whatever they are.

I considers my Atheists friends just like a TV channel that has been turned off.

The "Violation of License" was cited on the 7th Heaven.
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Re: I am Muslim

#8  Postby ray » Feb 27, 2010 3:07 pm

amyonyango wrote:

You'll find all people on here open for discussion, but be prepared! Everyone expects everyone else to provide evidence for their statements that are presented as fact.

Your point of view will be picked apart in seconds if you are unable to provide such evidence.

Other than that, we don't bite (although you may get chewed on for a while!!)

Welcome to RS, please have an open mind and don't give up at the first sign of hardcore debate!

The forum members here have respect for people and we wont insult anyone personally in debate, but your point of view/beliefs/religion are what will be scrutinised. You need to understand the difference and don't take insult of your beliefs as insult to you personally - get it?!

:thumbup:

Amy



Thanks Amy.

I have an open mind, but I insulting is out for me.
I dont run from a debate. My God is more powerful and rational than any other force in the Universe.

Its just that I dont take part in a debate with people who are not out for a debate but for a dissing session.

I hope you guys can understand that.


amyonyango wrote:

Ray,

A question.

Please explain where you believe Allah originated from, how Allah was created or came into being.

What is the point of Allah's existence if so many fundamental Muslims take what they believe to be His word and use it to kill and terrorise?

Thanks Ray,

Amy.


God is not like the Universe. Definition of God is totally different than that of this Universe.

Universe was initiated 14,000,000,000 years ago. Well, thats what my Physics Professor tells me.

God was never initiated.

God has been around always. He claims that He is Eternal.

I dont have any problem with that. Its not an absurd claim.

As for deeds of muslims, I agree, some do terrible deeds. Thats because they, like atheists, also violate laws of Allah, either in ignorance, or deliberately. This is cause of such evils actions..
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Re: I am Muslim

#9  Postby amyonyango » Feb 27, 2010 3:12 pm

ray wrote:God has been around always. He claims that He is Eternal.


Now we get to the problem of evidence for your statement!

If God was to exist, he must have been created or come from somewhere/thing. What is the substance of his being?

To say that he has always been around does not explain how he came into being.

And how/where did he claim to be eternal? Who says? Prove it!

Amy
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Re: I am Muslim

#10  Postby Virus » Feb 27, 2010 3:15 pm

I've got a question.

Do you believe the example of Mohammed should be followed by people today?

If so, do you believe it is OK to marry and fuck a kid?
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Re: I am Muslim

#11  Postby Atheist Evolution » Feb 27, 2010 3:15 pm

ray wrote: I have my own beliefs and you have yours.


Of course, but what does that have to do with the discussion? Beliefs are not protected from critique, nor are they shielded from the burden of proof and evidence.

I am a Muslim, and a true believer in Allah; and hence, an authorised speaker on His behalf.


Oh? Authorized? By Whom? True believer? You decide who is a "true" believer and who isn't?

It means either you have asked an insulting question, or, I have already answered it.


If you don't answer some questions merely because they insult your sensibilities, then the conversation has failed already. Only unfettered conversation is really useful. If it is hampered by worrying about what will insult you, then we really aren't free to talk are we?

I am here only to share views and open up myself to those who sincerly want to know the facts directly from a true believer of God.


Facts?? I would say that the burden of proof is pretty heavy there. You have the facts? I would say that you should be prepared for a pretty heavy trouncing if you can't support your "fact" statement.

I am not here to convert you to Islam. I couldn't care less where you end up after death.


Very nice of you to say, but I would say that your job is a difficult one if you intend to show that we don't all just end up in the ground.

Hell or Paradise are there.


Oh? How do you know this?

If you reject God,


We are not rejecting god, we are rejecting a claim that appears to be 100% unsupported by evidence of any kind.

then it is not my life and my eternity that is at stake.


Nope, true. No ones eternity is at stake. Life is the longest thing that you will ever do.

Peace
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Re: I am Muslim

#12  Postby XiledSpawn » Feb 27, 2010 3:16 pm

From Oxford

Belief
• noun 1 a feeling that something exists or is true, especially one without proof. 2 a firmly held opinion. 3 (belief in) trust or confidence in. 4 religious faith.

I don't make make claims based on how I feel, especially without evidence, nor are my opinions unchanging, I prefer to see how things pan out rather then make assumptions (or make a prediction with the knowledge I have at hand), and I am not religous.
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Re: I am Muslim

#13  Postby dylan » Feb 27, 2010 3:19 pm

Could not some type of quantum foam or something have always existed then the universe came at the big bang. It just seems more plausible an explosion and natural processes rather than a magical person always existing deciding to make things.
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Re: I am Muslim

#14  Postby ray » Feb 27, 2010 3:20 pm

Since I am one, and you are many, please bare with me. I am busy person.
I will reply to all your valid questions.

amyonyango wrote:
ray wrote:God has been around always. He claims that He is Eternal.


Now we get to the problem of evidence for your statement!

If God was to exist, he must have been created or come from somewhere/thing. What is the substance of his being?

To say that he has always been around does not explain how he came into being.

And how/where did he claim to be eternal? Who says? Prove it!

Amy


Its like the law of energy. It has always been around. It can neither be created nor destroyed.

I think that law fits God like a glove.

God is Absolute. He is Supreme Engery that has always existed.
No beginning. No End. Eternal. Independent of everything. Absolute. Incomprable.

If you accept first law of Thermodynamics, then you ought to have no problem that God is forever too.
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Re: I am Muslim

#15  Postby Paul G » Feb 27, 2010 3:22 pm

But that doesn't really describe much does it? There's a big jump from God is eternal energy to God answering prayers and urging women to be obediant to their husbands.
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Re: I am Muslim

#16  Postby Imp » Feb 27, 2010 3:23 pm

ray wrote:As for deeds of muslims, I agree, some do terrible deeds. Thats because they, like atheists, also violate laws of Allah, either in ignorance, or deliberately. This is cause of such evils actions..

Really? No True Muslim™

However, it seems they do exactly what Allah says:

The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101

If they ... assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief. ...
Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them 9:12-14

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah. 9:29

Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you. 9:123

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve ... take them and kill them wherever ye find them. 4:89

Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. 9:5
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Re: I am Muslim

#17  Postby amyonyango » Feb 27, 2010 3:36 pm

ray wrote:Since I am one, and you are many, please bare with me. I am busy person.
I will reply to all your valid questions.

amyonyango wrote:
ray wrote:God has been around always. He claims that He is Eternal.


Now we get to the problem of evidence for your statement!

If God was to exist, he must have been created or come from somewhere/thing. What is the substance of his being?

To say that he has always been around does not explain how he came into being.

And how/where did he claim to be eternal? Who says? Prove it!

Amy


Its like the law of energy. It has always been around. It can neither be created nor destroyed.

I think that law fits God like a glove.

God is Absolute. He is Supreme Engery that has always existed.
No beginning. No End. Eternal. Independent of everything. Absolute. Incomprable.

If you accept first law of Thermodynamics, then you ought to have no problem that God is forever too.


I'm not a physicist - I'm more of an, er "common-sense-ist", a rationalist!

So I can't really compare energy of the universe with energy of a god.

However, god must be a conscious being to impose rules on humans etc, and provide eternal paradise/hell etc. So where did the consciousness come from? Conscious beings have taken millenia to evolve on earth, but if god himself is the eternal conscious creator why did he take so long to come up with humans as his creations with their own consciousness?

It's not logical or rational to me to belive in something that doesn't make sense and can't be proven.
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Re: I am Muslim

#18  Postby Alan B » Feb 27, 2010 5:09 pm

ray wrote:As for deeds of muslims, I agree, some do terrible deeds. Thats because they, like atheists, also violate laws of Allah, either in ignorance, or deliberately. This is cause of such evils actions..
My Bold.
Before we go any further, could we clarify just one thing.
Atheists, by definition, have no belief in the existence of a god or gods, and by extension that non-belief also includes the supernatural and all associated baggage.
Atheism is NOT a belief system in the sense that Islam, Christianity and other theist religions are.
No atheist, as far as I know, has deliberately committed a violent act in the name of atheism* (as in the manner of some misguided Muslims and also Christians in the Crusades, (can't leave them out)).
But if someone acted violently towards us because of their misguided belief (whether Islamic or Christian), then, like anyone else we would react accordingly.
I apologise if this is your present understanding, but I thought it best avoid any possible misconceptions.

(I have a feeling of deja vu :ask: )

* Although recent events at another place might prove me wrong. :)

Oh! I forgot. Welcome to the forum and enjoy your time here. :cheers:
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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Re: I am Muslim

#19  Postby ray » Feb 27, 2010 7:06 pm

ok.

Before I reply to your reasonable criticisms and questions, I would like to say to VIRUS that your comment was insulting. if you dont want to discuss, then please dont bother wasting time.
I will let you go this time. But if you, or anyone else, repeat insulting comments, I will not respond to you.

Also, to Imp:

Quote mining is easy. Anyone can pick things out of context to feed his intersts.


Paul G wrote:

There's a big jump from God is eternal energy to God answering prayers and urging women to be obediant to their husbands.


Indeed. You are right. Its a massive jump. Which is why I didnt ask you to make it.

amyonyango wrote:



If you accept first law of Thermodynamics, then you ought to have no problem that God is forever too.


god must be a conscious being to impose rules on humans etc, and provide eternal paradise/hell etc.

So where did the consciousness come from?
Conscious beings have taken millenia to evolve on earth, but if god himself is the eternal conscious creator why did he take so long to come up with humans as his creations with their own consciousness?



Why does it matter to you the period at which God decided to make humans. Is time an issue for you?


My replies in BOLD:


Atheist Evolution wrote:


ray wrote: I have my own beliefs and you have yours.


Of course, but what does that have to do with the discussion? Beliefs are not protected from critique, nor are they shielded from the burden of proof and evidence.

I was just laying down an introduction. Also, I never said that I dont like criticism.

I am a Muslim, and a true believer in Allah; and hence, an authorised speaker on His behalf.


Oh? Authorized? By Whom? True believer? You decide who is a "true" believer and who isn't?

By God. And yes, I can tell who is a true believer and who is an Atheist.
Its not very difficult. I think even you can do that.



It means either you have asked an insulting question, or, I have already answered it.


If you don't answer some questions merely because they insult your sensibilities, then the conversation has failed already. Only unfettered conversation is really useful. If it is hampered by worrying about what will insult you, then we really aren't free to talk are we?

You want unfettered exchange?

In that case, you need to have word with moderators of these forums. If they change the terms and conditions, then sure, Im in.


I am here only to share views and open up myself to those who sincerly want to know the facts directly from a true believer of God.


Facts?? I would say that the burden of proof is pretty heavy there. You have the facts? I would say that you should be prepared for a pretty heavy trouncing if you can't support your "fact" statement.

I was talking about things like anti-muslim propaganda and misinformation about Islam from our media. Now you have me to check your so called facts with what a true believers holds as true.

I am not here to convert you to Islam. I couldn't care less where you end up after death.


Very nice of you to say, but I would say that your job is a difficult one if you intend to show that we don't all just end up in the ground.

I know, its never easy. Its harder than Quantam Physics. Not everyone is up for such deep stuff.

Hell or Paradise are there.


Oh? How do you know this?

Guys have been there and back.

If you reject God,


We are not rejecting god, we are rejecting a claim that appears to be 100% unsupported by evidence of any kind.

Well, thats why I am here.

then it is not my life and my eternity that is at stake.


Nope, true. No ones eternity is at stake. Life is the longest thing that you will ever do.

Any evidence for that?

Peace

Salam.





Alan B wrote:

But if someone acted violently towards us because of their misguided belief (whether Islamic or Christian), then, like anyone else we would react accordingly.



Like wise, the same law applies for muslims.

I am sure you can now undertand why God also allows muslims
to "react accordingly" when U.S. invades Iraq on pack of WMD lies.
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Re: I am Muslim

#20  Postby Atheist Evolution » Feb 27, 2010 7:22 pm

First, virus had a very valid question, even if he said it in a way that insulted you. It is valid.

Second you didn't say "true believer" as though you could differentiate between Muslims and atheists, you said that you could differentiate between Muslims who CLAIM to be Muslims and "true" Muslims.

Third, You have been to heaven and hell have you?

As for life being the longest thing that we will ever do? ALL evidence points to that, and NOTHING points to us surviving after death. That is the reason for my assertion.

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