Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

A response to vilification from the left

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Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#1  Postby Made of Stars » Dec 23, 2015 1:41 pm

...For a while now, a tide of racialized smears, primarily focused on denying my intellectual agency and policing which of my thoughts are “authentically Muslim” and which are deemed “too white,” have been building against me by those on the regressive left. These smears began after I, a Muslim, began a dialogue with leading atheist thinker Sam Harris on the future of Islam, my own religion. The smears peaked when Sam and I addressed a crowd at Harvard...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... onkey.html
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#2  Postby Blackadder » Dec 23, 2015 2:01 pm

Made of Stars wrote:
...For a while now, a tide of racialized smears, primarily focused on denying my intellectual agency and policing which of my thoughts are “authentically Muslim” and which are deemed “too white,” have been building against me by those on the regressive left. These smears began after I, a Muslim, began a dialogue with leading atheist thinker Sam Harris on the future of Islam, my own religion. The smears peaked when Sam and I addressed a crowd at Harvard...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... onkey.html


Some of the enemies of Islam happen to be odious, repulsive, racist shitbags. It appears that some of Islam's defenders are too. Who'd a thunk it, eh?
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#3  Postby Made of Stars » Dec 23, 2015 8:35 pm

It's a further example of the "regressive left" vilifying those who speak out against Islam, including those from within the Muslim community. Witness the treatment of Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Consider this little blogosphere spat inspired by Ali's visit. During a discussion about female circumcision on left-leaning site Larvatus Prodeo, blogger Kim said: "It would also be useful to know more about what sorts of methods those working against the practice in Australia are using. It would seem to me counterproductive to have loud denunciations of it — the key thing should be to convince people it is wrong."

Conservative blogger Tim Blair pounced soon enough: "You'd think if there was one issue on which a Western feminist might be moved to loud denunciation, it'd be the genital mutilation of little girls. But no; this instead turns out to be an issue (one of the few) about which the likes of Kim are inclined to shut the hell up. In the rock-scissors-paper hierarchy of the modern left, sensitivity to Islam trumps clitoral scissors every time."

...An intriguing debate over Ali erupted recently in the world of letters. It was prompted by prominent writers Timothy Garton Ash and Ian Buruma, who accused her of an "extremism" that can only drive Europe's Muslims further away from liberalism. Buruma went further still, effectively accusing her of bullying an "already vulnerable" community.)

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2007/ ... 23489.html
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#4  Postby igorfrankensteen » Dec 24, 2015 3:30 am

Being an OOF myself, who grew up as a twenteen in the peak early years of American Liberation movements, I saw this kind of thing going on right in front of me, every day.

The dynamic is straightforward and logical, and is not at all isolated to left or right or any other defined group.

The bottom line thing to recognize, is that certain kinds of people in the human spectrum, "get off" on being self-righteous. They give themselves a sense of personal power, and imagine that they achieve higher status because of it. At the ultimate root, seems to be the desire to be respected as a full adult, which most humans get a hunger for starting from the first time someone tells them they can't have whatever they want until they get to be a grownup.

The most intense period of all humans lives where this urge comes to the forefront, is during the transition from child to fully recognized adult, which I refer to as the Twenteens. Until that time, humans are most likely to be shushed and shut down when they try to break out of their child status. Add the environment of College/University, and you have a recipe for a near explosion of large groups of children who are 100% certain that they know everything about everything, better than anyone else.

Political groups seeking power exhibit the same behaviors. A lot of insight can be gained, by recognizing that it is not so much the VIEWPOINTS that those doing the shouting, want to promote, it is their own recognition which they are pushing for.

This is in turn why it is very common to think you see huge hypocrisies. These people want to say something very strongly, so they do. The intensity of their pronouncements has no relation at all to how much they have, or indeed are willing to, think things through rationally, because again, actually solving problems has no place in their agendas.

In the case of the bulk of the "pro womens' rights" people appearing to show support as well for foreigners who mutilate young females, is actually NOT a real hypocrisy, it's actually a show of continuity. Because what they are actually excited to oppose isn't so much oppression of women, it's the rule of the powerful official "grownups," who are making the official rules. Those rule makers, back in the seventies especially, favored two things (or were said to at least). That was telling American women how to behave, and telling foreigners that they had to live like Americans.

It seems to me that this sort of thing is still happening today, to the consternation of my generation who USED to be the rebels, but are not the "official grownups," trying to dictate what's right and wrong.

Those spewing the most vitriol may THINK that they are pushing either for greater freedom, or greater allegiance to grand ideas. But all they are really pushing for, is the sense of adulthood they get from the act of pushing itself.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#5  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Dec 24, 2015 3:39 am

Ayaan Hirsi Ali often gets called out for saying legitimately awful, stupid, unfair stuff. All criticism of her (or ANYONE) being equated with sensitivity to Islam is just silly.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#6  Postby Made of Stars » Dec 24, 2015 12:40 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Ayaan Hirsi Ali often gets called out for saying legitimately awful, stupid, unfair stuff.

Can you recall any examples?
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#7  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Dec 24, 2015 1:33 pm

Canadians, vote for Harper because Islam is scary.

As if radical Islam is a remotely significant issue in Canada and Canadians have no other social issues to worry about and vote based on....

There was also the really derpy remark about how if public assistance hadn't been available and the murderer of Theo van Gogh had been employed the crime never would have occurred. Public assistance murders!

She works for the American Enterprise Institute so none of the loony things she says should surprise me but on some subjects she's SO coherent and understanding, it's hard to believe she's a frigging neocon.

It's just so dumb and frankly sexist that we're told not to criticise Ayaan Hirsi Ali, as if she can't take it. She's a grown person. And calling out the goofy things she says isn't necessarily people being politically correct, insisting we protect the feelings of reactionary Muslims. A lot (I'll wager most) has nothing to do with that and everything to do with her having said something facepalm-worthy.

In lots of respects she's incredible. I still think she should be criticised.
Last edited by Rachel Bronwyn on Dec 24, 2015 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#8  Postby Shrunk » Dec 24, 2015 1:44 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Canadians, vote for Harper because Islam is scary.


I don't remember that. What exactly did she say?

EDIT: Never mind. I found it:

https://twitter.com/ayaan/status/656209729824399361

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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#9  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Dec 24, 2015 1:48 pm

As previously said, she works for the American Enterprise Institute. None of this should surprise us except that the side of her a lot of us knew first wasn't relevant to her politics in Europe and North America.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#10  Postby Shrunk » Dec 24, 2015 2:28 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:As previously said, she works for the American Enterprise Institute. None of this should surprise us except that the side of her a lot of us knew first wasn't relevant to her politics in Europe and North America.


Some people claim that her politics were not originally so right wing, but only became so after the hostile reception she received from some elements of the left. I have no idea if that is true.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#11  Postby Made of Stars » Dec 24, 2015 8:52 pm

Shrunk wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:As previously said, she works for the American Enterprise Institute. None of this should surprise us except that the side of her a lot of us knew first wasn't relevant to her politics in Europe and North America.

Some people claim that her politics were not originally so right wing, but only became so after the hostile reception she received from some elements of the left. I have no idea if that is true.

It's certainly touted, along with the claim that no-one on the left would hire her. I don't think her employer should be relevant, only what she says. It's kinda ad-hom to try to exclude what she says because of who pays the grocery bill.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#12  Postby Arjan Dirkse » Dec 26, 2015 2:59 am

In the Netherlands Ayaan Hirsi Ali was in the left wing Pvda (similar to Labor) before she switched to the more right wing VVD. I don't think she is particularly right wing, she just really doesn't like Islam. She certainly isn't socially conservative or xenophobic.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#13  Postby Ven. Kwan Tam Woo » Dec 26, 2015 6:51 am

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Canadians, vote for Harper because Islam is scary.


It is scary. The more you look into its doctrines, history and socio-political influences, the scarier it gets.

As if radical Islam is a remotely significant issue in Canada and Canadians have no other social issues to worry about and vote based on....


An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, especially in this case.

There was also the really derpy remark about how if public assistance hadn't been available and the murderer of Theo van Gogh had been employed the crime never would have occurred.


Hmm, given the recent atrocity in San Bernardino, I think I might have to agree with you here...

She works for the American Enterprise Institute so none of the loony things she says should surprise me but on some subjects she's SO coherent and understanding, it's hard to believe she's a frigging neocon.


And what leftie or so-called progressive organisation would have a bar of her?

It's just so dumb and frankly sexist that we're told not to criticise Ayaan Hirsi Ali, as if she can't take it.


Ayaan is one of the bravest people on the planet. Considering that she lives under the constant threat of death from members of The Religion Of Peace, I don't think she'd be too worried about asinine criticisms from spoilt self-righteous lefties who've never had to risk their lives to fight for their freedom and rights.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#14  Postby Macdoc » Dec 26, 2015 7:03 am

It is scary. The more you look into its doctrines, history and socio-political influences, the scarier it gets.


no scarier than proselytizing Xtians to the south of us or their reaction to "not us".
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#15  Postby Made of Stars » Dec 26, 2015 7:13 am

Macdoc wrote:
It is scary. The more you look into its doctrines, history and socio-political influences, the scarier it gets.


no scarier than proselytizing Xtians to the south of us or their reaction to "not us".
I'm not the least concerned about Muslims here....my riding is 2/3 Muslim and I voted for and elected a Muslim engineer for federal MP.

The problem is not Muslims or Christians, Mac, the problem is jihadists. To the south of you, the Christian jihadists take it upon themselves to shoot women's health clinic staff. That's a problem.

But back to the topic.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#16  Postby Onyx8 » Dec 26, 2015 7:51 am

Ven. Kwan Tam Woo wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Canadians, vote for Harper because Islam is scary.


It is scary. The more you look into its doctrines, history and socio-political influences, the scarier it gets.



So why vote for someone who is likely to make the problem worse? It was bad advice.
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Re: Maajid Nawaz: "Don't call me porch monkey"

#17  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Dec 26, 2015 8:16 pm

Islam being scary is a stupid reason to vote Harper. Furthermore, telling people to vote for Harper based on the assumption he'll suppress the scary Muslims (lol, yeah right) assumes radical Islam is a major political concern Canadians should be prioritising over all others in the voting booth. It's not. Canadians are suffering and dying in far more significant numbers due to all kinds of social matters that should and do take precedence over radical Islam because Canadians in general can see that, holy shit, there are WAY bigger issues that need addressing, which Harper is making worse.

If it were a sociopolitical matter of significance in Canada and Harper actually could have fixed it, vote Harper because Islam is scary would have been reasonable. It's not though and he wouldn't. You have to be wearing blinders to think the damage Harper did politically was outweighed by his supposed tough stance against radical Islam, WHICH ISN'T EVEN A BIG THING HERE.

That's the case with Ayaan Hirsi Ali: she wears blinders. A major area of concern to her is radical Islam. OK. She sees a dude who also makes a big deal out of radical Islam as a threat. Then she tells the citizens of that country to vote for this guy based on that tidbit without taking into account how radical Islam effects that country or what other issues are of concern to that country's citizens.

That's SO short-sighted and SO stupid.

Again though, employed by a right wing think tank. I've no reason to be surprised (except that she's so bloody reasonable in other respects.)
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