Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#141  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 19, 2019 4:15 pm

Just observations. We all behave in particular ways.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#142  Postby Fallible » Mar 19, 2019 4:38 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:Now you're continuing with your argument about Muslims hating dogs, which is not actually what we were discussing.


It's what the thread is about (OP/title etc) and taxis was one element being discussed. :dunno:


I mean you and I.

Fallible wrote:I was attempting to show that religion is only one reason why a taxi driver, Muslim or otherwise, might refuse to carry dogs.


Yeah, and I can't thank you enough for that groundbreaking watershed reasoning. I was blind and now I can see. Who'd have thought some taxi drivers don't like taking dogs for other reasons! :doh: nonono, don't beat yourself up KIR, every day's a school day.


KIR, take a break. I say that in all sincerity. :cheers:
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#143  Postby Fallible » Mar 19, 2019 4:40 pm

I see plenty of Muslims in woods, on hillsides, by lakes, at the seaside, in shops, in parks, on the bus, at the hospital, playing football. walking down the road, even. It's almost like they behave like humans.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#144  Postby GrahamH » Mar 19, 2019 5:05 pm

Fallible is right.
Cool down.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#145  Postby GrahamH » Mar 19, 2019 5:20 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:I was attempting to show that religion is only one reason why a taxi driver, Muslim or otherwise, might refuse to carry dogs.


Yeah, and I can't thank you enough for that groundbreaking watershed reasoning. I was blind and now I can see. Who'd have thought some taxi drivers don't like taking dogs for other reasons! :doh: nonono, don't beat yourself up KIR, every day's a school day.


Your claim was that your sister's anecdote constituted exemplary evidence that Muslims hate dogs. That was never a valid argument and if you'd thought it through rationally you would probably have realised it was fallacious. But you posted it and we pointed out the error.


Good to see we all agree on something.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#146  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 19, 2019 7:46 pm

Earlier KIR's word doc saved thoughts wrote:You haven't pointed out jack shit "Graham." I said if the 20 taxi drivers at the station had been non-muslim my sister et al would almost definitely have been given a lift home. I stand by that. If you have anything resembling reason or rational why that's obviously wrong you've failed to present it. 20 taxis.


I have my doubts as to whether a random sample of 20 non-muslim taxi drivers would all refuse to take a young woman, child and clean dog home at night from the train station...but agree there is some doubt over the issue.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#147  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 19, 2019 8:15 pm

Fallible wrote:I see plenty of Muslims in woods, on hillsides, by lakes, at the seaside, in shops, in parks, on the bus, at the hospital, playing football. walking down the road, even. It's almost like they behave like humans.


Libellous straw man. Had the police round today because of a samuri-sword incident, then made my packed lunch for unpaid work tomoz. Sometimes I could swear the universe is out to get me with stress :roll:
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#148  Postby Fallible » Mar 19, 2019 8:16 pm

I...what?
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#149  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 19, 2019 8:18 pm

Of course I consider Muslims to be human :(
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#150  Postby Fallible » Mar 19, 2019 8:21 pm

I wasn't even directing my comment towards you!
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#151  Postby Hermit » Mar 19, 2019 8:23 pm

Keep It Real wrote:Come to think of it, I don't recall seeing any Muslim families in the local parks, or out walking in the countryside.

Neither do I, but that may be because I don't know exactly how to detect a Muslim. Maybe you could help me out.

I used to think they are easy to spot. Men with beards, tea towels on their heads and a copy of the Qur'an jammed under one arm. Women covered by a hijab and grey or black robes down to their heels. That sort of thing, And indeed, it's a rare day I see them in the local parks, or out walking in the countryside.

Turns out that most our local Muslims are Muslims in the same way as most our local Christians are Christian: Pretty much in name only. And they don't dress like Muslims are supposed to be dressed or have Muslim style beards. Then I thought if they at least look like Arabs, they are almost certainly Muslim. We had thousands of them arrive in Australia as refugees during the Lebanese civil war. Dozens of new kebab shops sprang up all over the country, as did pastry shops that sold baklava. I love both. But talking to the shop keepers was a bit of a surprise. Yes, they looked Arabic. Yes, they hailed from Muslim countries, but it turned out that half of them were Christians of some sort or another, at least in name. Before and during the civil war half of Lebanon's population was of Maronite Catholic, Greek Orthodox or some other Christian denomination.

I'm at the end of my tether. Please help me. I need a reliable method for recognising Muslims. From your posts I gather you know exactly what a Muslim is and how to recognise one.
Last edited by Hermit on Mar 19, 2019 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#152  Postby GrahamH » Mar 19, 2019 8:24 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Earlier KIR's word doc saved thoughts wrote:You haven't pointed out jack shit "Graham." I said if the 20 taxi drivers at the station had been non-muslim my sister et al would almost definitely have been given a lift home. I stand by that. If you have anything resembling reason or rational why that's obviously wrong you've failed to present it. 20 taxis.


I have my doubts as to whether a random sample of 20 non-muslim taxi drivers would all refuse to take a young woman, child and clean dog home at night from the train station...but agree there is some doubt over the issue.
But you have no doubt that Muslim taxi drivers would refuse because your sister once asked some number not more than 20?

You didn't even bother to mention how she knew their religious beliefs.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#153  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 19, 2019 8:39 pm

Fallible wrote:I wasn't even directing my comment towards you!


That's good to know. Thanks.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#154  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 19, 2019 9:26 pm

Hermit wrote:
I'm at the end of my tether. Please help me. I need a reliable method for recognising Muslims. From your posts I gather you know exactly what a Muslim is and how to recognise one.


As a bare minimum: looking like you're from Pakistan and living in Gloucester is conservatively 80% reliable I estimate. If you're looking for 100% reliable then, correct, I have no answers.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#155  Postby Hermit » Mar 19, 2019 10:02 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Hermit wrote:
I'm at the end of my tether. Please help me. I need a reliable method for recognising Muslims. From your posts I gather you know exactly what a Muslim is and how to recognise one.

As a bare minimum: looking like you're from Pakistan and living in Gloucester is conservatively 80% reliable I estimate. If you're looking for 100% reliable then, correct, I have no answers.

You misunderstood my post. Perhaps I did not express myself clearly enough, so let me try from a different angle.

Given that 3.2% of Gloucester's population was Muslim in 2011, (it's probably higher now, but I could not find more recent figures) one might expect a similar percentage of Muslim families in the local parks, or out walking in the countryside. You wrote "I don't recall seeing any Muslim families in the local parks, or out walking in the countryside" (my bolding). How could you tell? Is it a case of not seeing anyone you expect to look like a Muslim?

I suspect you suffer from a massive bout of confirmation bias.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#156  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 20, 2019 4:00 am

I was thinking of fundy type muslims who dress like this:

Image

But yeah, fuck that train anyway basically, it was a very loose comment from me as I haven't ever paid real attention to whether there're people who "look like they're Muslim" in parks etc before so have no solid opinion on the matter really.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#157  Postby Hermit » Mar 20, 2019 4:46 am

Keep It Real wrote:I was thinking of fundy type muslims who dress like this:

Image

But yeah, fuck that train anyway basically, it was a very loose comment from me as I haven't ever paid real attention to whether there're people who "look like they're Muslim" in parks etc before so have no solid opinion on the matter really.

Good. In post #151 I have mentioned that "most our local Muslims are Muslims in the same way as most our local Christians are Christian: Pretty much in name only. And they don't dress like Muslims are supposed to be dressed or have Muslim style beards." Please keep in mind that this may be the case in the UK also. I venture to say that it is almost certainly the case. You don't notice them because they kind of blend in with society at large. You just notice Muslims that do look like stereotypical Muslims because they really stick out, don't they, and then decide that all Muslims look like that because... well, there's no because, is there?
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#158  Postby surreptitious57 » Mar 20, 2019 5:07 am

Keep It Real wrote:
I moved from Cheltenham to Gloucester around 8 months ago and live in the Muslim bit here
Another thing surreptitious57 and myself have in common I guess

I dont know what the percentage is where you live but here it is 70. And the Muslim population has slowly been increasing in the 53 years I have been living here. But over such a long period of time is not something I have ever noticed. Birmingham in general has a very concentrated Muslim population along with Bradford and Leicester. And although you may live in a Muslim area it will not be as dense as those cities. And especially if you dont notice them very well according to what you have said

By the way your depiction of fundy Muslims is a bit misleading because this is how traditional [ non fundy ] Muslims dress as well. Though the niqab is more common among Muslims of African descent than Asian. The vast majority of female Muslims of Asian descent here dont wear it at all [ only a headscarf or veil ]
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#159  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 20, 2019 6:14 am

Hermit wrote: In post #151 I have mentioned that "most our local Muslims are Muslims in the same way as most our local Christians are Christian: Pretty much in name only. And they don't dress like Muslims are supposed to be dressed or have Muslim style beards." Please keep in mind that this may be the case in the UK also. I venture to say that it is almost certainly the case. You don't notice them because they kind of blend in with society at large. You just notice Muslims that do look like stereotypical Muslims because they really stick out, don't they, and then decide that all Muslims look like that because... well, there's no because, is there?


Yeah, they stick out, and there is no because/reason - of course not all/most Muslims dress like fundies. Having said that male + long black beard = probably Muslim in my book :dunno: I agree most Muslims blend in pretty well and may well, for example, rarely pray, eat pork, not fast during Ramadan, drink alcohol, have sex outside marriage etc.

As Rachel said earlier in the thread the uncomfortable around dogs thing may gradually have permeated the culture in a nebulous kinda way so they didn't grow up around dogs and generally picked up a bad vibe. If they then become taxi drivers that nebulous "bad vibe" might just tip the scales against taking dogs regardless of religious dogma per se, when combined with the other reasons a cabbie might refuse to take dogs.
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Re: Muslim's attitudes toward dogs.

#160  Postby Hermit » Mar 20, 2019 7:23 am

Keep It Real wrote:As Rachel said earlier in the thread the uncomfortable around dogs thing may gradually have permeated the culture in a nebulous kinda way so they didn't grow up around dogs and generally picked up a bad vibe. If they then become taxi drivers that nebulous "bad vibe" might just tip the scales against taking dogs regardless of religious dogma per se, when combined with the other reasons a cabbie might refuse to take dogs.

Worth remembering too that not that many years ago dogs, guide dogs, comfort dogs or not, were not allowed in taxis full stop. No exceptions. That kind of culture cannot be switched off with a change in law. It kind of peters out as older drivers leave the workforce thus no longer influencing their replacements with fossilised mindset. It's a (very) small-scale parallel to the 1964 civil rights act in the US still having to work its way through into the real world and women still struggling for practical equality decades after laws decreed they are entitled to it everywhere in the so called developed nations.

At the risk of derailing the thread, an illustration à propos the latter: Earlier this week channel 7 posted a photo of a women's Aussie Rules team member kicking the ball goalwards. It was a study of superb power, athleticism, determination and elegance. It really was. Here it is.

Image

Comments flooded in immediately that were mostly either disparaging of womanhood, rude, insulting or plain smutty. Can you imagine that kind of reaction if the the photo was of a male AFL player in the same posture? No, neither can I.

But there's worse to come. Someone at channel 7 decided the best course of action was to take the photo offline and leave the comments where they were. As if the photo was the problem, rather than the trolls' comments! Women's liberation when?
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