Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

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Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#1  Postby Peter Brown » Sep 20, 2015 10:32 am

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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#2  Postby Oeditor » Sep 20, 2015 11:55 am

That post appears bland to me Content, Maestro, if you please! :)
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#3  Postby NineBerry » Sep 20, 2015 12:00 pm

It has a two hour video of a presentation by a fundamentalist evangelical Christian given at a fundamentalist Christian "university".
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#4  Postby Peter Brown » Sep 20, 2015 12:45 pm

NineBerry wrote:It has a two hour video of a presentation by a fundamentalist evangelical Christian given at a fundamentalist Christian "university".


Is he incorrect though? no?
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#5  Postby NineBerry » Sep 20, 2015 12:50 pm

I don't know. I am not going to watch that video. I only watch fundamentalists when they are funny. This guy doesn't seem to be funny. Some part I watched already contains a false claim: He says that Muslims believe that "the only way to heaven is to die in Jihad" which is clearly nonsense.
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#6  Postby NineBerry » Sep 20, 2015 12:52 pm

If you want to watch a funny Christian fundamentalist talk about Islam watch this by Walter Veith:



:lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#7  Postby Oeditor » Sep 20, 2015 1:03 pm

NineBerry wrote:If you want to watch a funny Christian fundamentalist talk about Islam watch this by Walter Veith:



:lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Well, at least I can see that link, although only when I get the full text up to relply, Evidently Firefox playing up - again :-(
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#8  Postby Peter Brown » Sep 20, 2015 2:43 pm

NineBerry wrote:I don't know. I am not going to watch that video. I only watch fundamentalists when they are funny. This guy doesn't seem to be funny. Some part I watched already contains a false claim: He says that Muslims believe that "the only way to heaven is to die in Jihad" which is clearly nonsense.


It is indeed one of the automatic ways to get into heaven, die in Jihad, another is to die on the pilgrimage in Mecca. It isn't a false claim at all, it is their traditional belief based on what the Qur'an and hadith says. What Muhammad says.

For the rest of the Muslim community they have to acquire points, the more spiritual points they get the less time in hell they have to go through before being fit to enter heaven.

You often hear them referring to Muhammad as the perfect guide, the person to copy. This again comes down to a belief that to acquire these spiritual points, and they don't have a list, if they copy him they must be doing the right thing to acquire the points. Enter the reasons for the hadiths that detail aspects of his life, including how to eliminate waste from the body, which some Muslims now copy to be as perfect as Muhammad.

It (Islam) is a fascinating cult and insight on how to brainwash yourself into the absurd. It is why it is so dangerous and not like Christianity at all which just only works on disbelieving reality through faith, which Islam has reinforced into it by the bucket load.
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#9  Postby Shrunk » Sep 20, 2015 3:19 pm

Peter Brown wrote:It is indeed one of the automatic ways to get into heaven, die in Jihad, another is to die on the pilgrimage in Mecca. It isn't a false claim at all, it is their traditional belief based on what the Qur'an and hadith says. What Muhammad says.


I was also taught I could get there by believing in Allah, that Muhammed was his messenger, and by being a good person. I guess I was taught by a bunch of flaming liberal heretics.
"A community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime." -Oscar Wilde
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#10  Postby Oeditor » Sep 20, 2015 3:42 pm

NineBerry wrote:It has a two hour video of a presentation by a fundamentalist evangelical Christian given at a fundamentalist Christian "university".
Thanks NineBerry, that prompted me to do some digging into Firefox. After a couple of rather dramatic crashes, a couple of recent spontaneous Firefox problems are now resolved. How they came about Ive no idea. Pity I probably shan't bother to watch the man going on for hours after all.
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#11  Postby Peter Brown » Sep 20, 2015 4:04 pm

Shrunk wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:It is indeed one of the automatic ways to get into heaven, die in Jihad, another is to die on the pilgrimage in Mecca. It isn't a false claim at all, it is their traditional belief based on what the Qur'an and hadith says. What Muhammad says.


I was also taught I could get there by believing in Allah, that Muhammed was his messenger, and by being a good person. I guess I was taught by a bunch of flaming liberal heretics.


no, you were just taught part of, or maybe you have forgotten that part of the teaching?

It is not unusual to forget or not been told. How many CoE members believe they should speak in tongues vs Pentecostal? But its in the NT. The whole charismatic movement of the Roman Catholic church was because members started reading the NT by themselves and thought this isn't what we are being told every Sunday.

But you get there, to heaven by what you said, just not instantly as you will by death in the cause of Jihad or the pilgrimage. You have to earn your way by building up those spiritual points.

Not that you can now being an apostate, and never a Muslim in the first place according to other traditions.

We are all rather lucky its not real.


Sahih Bukhari 53:353 records Muhammad as saying, "Allah guarantees him who strives in His cause and whose motivation for going out is nothing but Jihad in His cause and belief in His word, that He will admit him into Paradise if martyred or bring him back to his dwelling place with what he gains of reward and booty."

This verse calls for one who strives in Allah's cause and who believes Allah's words to perform Jihad. And what is this Jihad? It is the striving and motivation to go out and kill or be killed with rewards of booty or paradise.

The Qur'an is also very clear in this matter Q4:74 - Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fights in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

Here Allah is promising vast rewards for those who fight and are slain in his way. But what if you were not prepared to fight in the way of Allah? Muhammad says in SM 20:4696 "One who died but did not fight in the way of Allah nor did he express any desire or determination for Jihad died the death of a hypocrite." Jihad here clearly means fighting in the way of Allah, and those Muslims who do not desire conquering the unbelievers, are liable to an afterlife on par with the hypocrites in Hell.

The Qur'an also guarantees forgiveness for every sin if one is slain in the way of Allah. Q3:157 And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.

https://sites.google.com/site/islamicsc ... me/jihad-2

Its all there for any Muslim to read, it was what Muhammad and companions believed that matters to a Muslim?
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#12  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Sep 20, 2015 6:50 pm

Peter Brown wrote:
Shrunk wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:It is indeed one of the automatic ways to get into heaven, die in Jihad, another is to die on the pilgrimage in Mecca. It isn't a false claim at all, it is their traditional belief based on what the Qur'an and hadith says. What Muhammad says.


I was also taught I could get there by believing in Allah, that Muhammed was his messenger, and by being a good person. I guess I was taught by a bunch of flaming liberal heretics.


no, you were just taught part of, or maybe you have forgotten that part of the teaching?

Or perhaps the third option you keep trying to pretend doesn't exist:
Islaim isn't a monolithic entity with one objectively true interpetation.

Peter Brown wrote:
It is not unusual to forget or not been told. How many CoE members believe they should speak in tongues vs Pentecostal?

And by which objective metric do you determine who is the True CoE member?

Peter Brown wrote: But its in the NT.

So is killing disobedient children, banning women from teaching and all other manner of nonsense.

Peter Brown wrote: The whole charismatic movement of the Roman Catholic church was because members started reading the NT by themselves and thought this isn't what we are being told every Sunday.

But you get there, to heaven by what you said, just not instantly as you will by death in the cause of Jihad or the pilgrimage.

You seem to be unaware that Jihad means spiritual struggle, not holy war.

Peter Brown wrote:
Its all there for any Muslim to read, it was what Muhammad and companions believed that matters to a Muslim?

:picard:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Nabeel Qureshi on the history of Mohammad!

#13  Postby aliihsanasl » Mar 09, 2016 8:33 am

NineBerry wrote:I don't know. I am not going to watch that video. I only watch fundamentalists when they are funny. This guy doesn't seem to be funny. Some part I watched already contains a false claim: He says that Muslims believe that "the only way to heaven is to die in Jihad" which is clearly nonsense.


I believe this will entertain you NineBerry. After 1400 years 2 muslims discussing how reliable Mohammed's words.

"If someday my teachings conflict with science, choose science"

Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK
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