Pig dissection

Student teacher won't do it.

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the mosques...

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Pig dissection

#1  Postby campermon » Nov 26, 2011 10:33 am

Hi all,

In my science department we train student teachers. As part of their training we like to get them to teach outside of their specialism so that they get an overview of science teaching (also it's good experience, for example I'm a physicist but I have to teach the odd biology / chemistry class to make the timetable fit).

One of my students is a muslim (chem specialist) and we've got him doing a little bit of biology - teaching about the respiratory system. As part of the topic the kids get to dissect pigs hearts. The student teacher has refused to do this lesson because of he reckons that he's not allowed to handle pigs hearts.

Is there any religious reason why he's not allowed to dissect a pigs heart? (I mean, he would be wearing gloves and he's not exactly going to eat it). Or is he just using his religion as an excuse because he's a bit squeamish?

Cheers
;)
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Re: Pig dissection

#2  Postby z8000783 » Nov 26, 2011 10:43 am

AFAIK the Quran only refers to eating it. Ask him to show you the verse that says he mustn't touch it or what other authority he is using.

[5:3] Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.


Like many Muslims I expect, he is making stuff up.

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Re: Pig dissection

#3  Postby campermon » Nov 26, 2011 10:48 am

z8000783 wrote:AFAIK the Quran only refers to eating it. Ask him to show you the verse that says he mustn't touch it or what other authority he is using.


Yes, that was what I thought.
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Re: Pig dissection

#4  Postby byofrcs » Nov 26, 2011 11:05 am

Using your student's logic there would be no Muslim veterinarians that performed autopsies to find out why an animal died (for example). If they google around e.g. http://www.malaysian-explorer.com/handl ... halal.html this is clearly some silly nonsense they made up and that all that's recommend is to have different work and normal clothes when handling this material (which is kind of obvious anyway).
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Re: Pig dissection

#5  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 26, 2011 11:10 am

There's nothing official in his religious doctrine, but they warp it to mean whatever they want it to mean for immediate convenience. Shame you can't fail him! ;)
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Re: Pig dissection

#6  Postby campermon » Nov 26, 2011 11:20 am

Spearthrower wrote:There's nothing official in his religious doctrine, but they warp it to mean whatever they want it to mean for immediate convenience. Shame you can't fail him! ;)


I can fail him.

:grin:
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Re: Pig dissection

#7  Postby campermon » Nov 26, 2011 11:24 am

byofrcs wrote:Using your student's logic there would be no Muslim veterinarians that performed autopsies to find out why an animal died (for example). If they google around e.g. http://www.malaysian-explorer.com/handl ... halal.html this is clearly some silly nonsense they made up and that all that's recommend is to have different work and normal clothes when handling this material (which is kind of obvious anyway).


:thumbup:

Thanks for that.
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Re: Pig dissection

#8  Postby GenesForLife » Nov 26, 2011 11:25 am

campermon wrote:Hi all,

In my science department we train student teachers. As part of their training we like to get them to teach outside of their specialism so that they get an overview of science teaching (also it's good experience, for example I'm a physicist but I have to teach the odd biology / chemistry class to make the timetable fit).

One of my students is a muslim (chem specialist) and we've got him doing a little bit of biology - teaching about the respiratory system. As part of the topic the kids get to dissect pigs hearts. The student teacher has refused to do this lesson because of he reckons that he's not allowed to handle pigs hearts.

Is there any religious reason why he's not allowed to dissect a pigs heart? (I mean, he would be wearing gloves and he's not exactly going to eat it). Or is he just using his religion as an excuse because he's a bit squeamish?

Cheers
;)


Err, why would a practical on the respiratory system involve cutting up an organ of the circulatory system? :mrgreen:
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Re: Pig dissection

#9  Postby campermon » Nov 26, 2011 11:29 am

GenesForLife wrote:
campermon wrote:Hi all,

In my science department we train student teachers. As part of their training we like to get them to teach outside of their specialism so that they get an overview of science teaching (also it's good experience, for example I'm a physicist but I have to teach the odd biology / chemistry class to make the timetable fit).

One of my students is a muslim (chem specialist) and we've got him doing a little bit of biology - teaching about the respiratory system. As part of the topic the kids get to dissect pigs hearts. The student teacher has refused to do this lesson because of he reckons that he's not allowed to handle pigs hearts.

Is there any religious reason why he's not allowed to dissect a pigs heart? (I mean, he would be wearing gloves and he's not exactly going to eat it). Or is he just using his religion as an excuse because he's a bit squeamish?

Cheers
;)


Err, why would a practical on the respiratory system involve cutting up an organ of the circulatory system? :mrgreen:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's all the same to a physics teacher!!

:doh:
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Re: Pig dissection

#10  Postby Oeditor » Nov 26, 2011 1:34 pm

A chemistry teacher? What does he make of lessons involving producing, distilling or using ethanol, then? For that matter, are Muslim scruples sufficiently sophisticated to consider other alcohols permissible or otherwise?
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Re: Pig dissection

#11  Postby campermon » Nov 26, 2011 1:36 pm

Oeditor wrote:A chemistry teacher? What does he make of lessons involving producing, distilling or using ethanol, then? For that matter, are Muslim scruples sufficiently sophisticated to consider other alcohols permissible or otherwise?


Aye, good point.

I might have a quiet word with him.

:mrgreen:
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Re: Pig dissection

#12  Postby z8000783 » Nov 26, 2011 1:41 pm

Tell him to make sure he doesn't put anti-freeze in his car this winter also. If he says it's OK so long as he does not drink it then you have him.

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Re: Pig dissection

#13  Postby byofrcs » Nov 26, 2011 3:22 pm

Oeditor wrote:A chemistry teacher? What does he make of lessons involving producing, distilling or using ethanol, then? For that matter, are Muslim scruples sufficiently sophisticated to consider other alcohols permissible or otherwise?


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I think not touching or selling alcohol bottles only applies if they are a checkout operator or taxi driver.
[/dailymail]
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Re: Pig dissection

#14  Postby z8000783 » Nov 26, 2011 3:24 pm

What does the Quran say about checkout operators and taxi drivers, I've not come across that.

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Re: Pig dissection

#15  Postby 95Theses » Nov 26, 2011 3:59 pm

z8000783 wrote:What does the Quran say about checkout operators and taxi drivers, I've not come across that.

John


[72.4] And Yay if thou art working as an operator of checkouts or verily as a driver of taxis or even if thou art working in some other occupation which has parts one considers to be verily a ball ache of great proportions thou shalt useth the holy koran as an excuse for not bothering your arse to perform said ball ache of a job. As the prophet mohammed PBUH said 'fuck that shit, claim it's against your religion and every fucker will be too PC to challenge you. innit.'
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Re: Pig dissection

#16  Postby z8000783 » Nov 26, 2011 4:06 pm

:lol:
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Re: Pig dissection

#17  Postby Launion » Nov 26, 2011 5:22 pm

Image
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Re: Pig dissection

#18  Postby Agrippina » Nov 26, 2011 5:29 pm

It's based on this:

Muslims observe the same prohibitions on clean/unclean animals that the jews do:
Lev. 11:
1. (1-8) Eating mammals.

Now the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, "Speak to the children of Israel, saying, 'These are the animals which you may eat among all the animals that are on the earth: Among the animals, whatever divides the hoof, having cloven hooves and chewing the cud; that you may eat. Nevertheless these you shall not eat among those that chew the cud or those that have cloven hooves: the camel, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; the rock hyrax, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; the hare, because it chews the cud but does not have cloven hooves, is unclean to you; and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. They are unclean to you.'"
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Re: Pig dissection

#19  Postby z8000783 » Nov 26, 2011 5:32 pm

Except it's different.

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Re: Pig dissection

#20  Postby Emmeline » Nov 26, 2011 5:32 pm

If you have Muslim kids in your school then maybe find out if there's ever any issue with them handling pigs' organs in biology lessons. If not, then you can cite that to him. If there is an issue then presumably the biology dept also has a source for cows' hearts / lambs' hearts.
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