Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

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Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#1  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 08, 2019 9:32 am

The classic example of psychological projection as identified by Freud is that of projected thoughts of infidelity. A powerful, decision/law making/influencing Muslim male (of course), throughout the centuries, is surely the most likely type of male to have multiple wives, as is legislated for in the Koran itself. It follows then that these powerful men would project their thoughts (well, actions really) of promiscuity onto their wives and consequently, en mass, women in general, and this explains by my mind why Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia have laws such as forbidding women to leave the house without a male relative, travel abroad without a male relative's permission, show their hair/flesh in public, drive, experience sexual pleasure (FGM) etc.

Groundbreaking or stating the obvious?
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#2  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 08, 2019 7:54 pm

There is, of course, the argument of unlimited and substantial pluralism, in that there should be a substantial polygamous society which demeans, brutalises and dehumanises millions of women, stunting their intellectual and manifest growth and freedom in multifaceted fundamental ways, In the name of the sexual gratification of a few of the comparatively very rich/powerful. That is a weak argument IMO, to say the least.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#3  Postby tuco » Feb 08, 2019 8:28 pm

A quick thought is that the premise is not valid thus is not the conclusion.

It follows then that these powerful men would project their thoughts (well, actions really) of promiscuity onto their wives and consequently, en mass, women in general,


Let me offer an alternative hypothesis.

But the text is clear that polygamy is only permissible if all wives are treated justly. The Quran then goes on to say that it will never be possible for a husband to treat all of his wives fairly. This effectively limits the possibility of polygamy today.


https://www.islamicity.org/3079/a-quran ... -polygamy/


Premise 1: Man is to treat all wives fairly, sex included
Premise 2: This is practically not possible
Conclusion 1: Wives not treaty fairly get pissed and horny
Conclusion 2: Can't let them go alone ...
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#4  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 08, 2019 9:04 pm

What a load of shite. What is your explanation for the appalling treatment of women in, say saudi arablia? Is it seriously that? HINT: agree with me.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#5  Postby tuco » Feb 08, 2019 9:05 pm

Its not a pile of shit, you can google yourself or ask scholars. I've heard multiple saying it .. but if it does not work for you, its alright with me.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#6  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 08, 2019 9:16 pm

I wonder if it works for the saudi royals...evidently not. You're a flake, tuco.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#7  Postby tuco » Feb 08, 2019 9:29 pm

The question, here, is not what works ~ description of reality, at least the way I understood it. The question was whether or not projection, power, polygamy, and oppression in Islam are connected.

Psychological projection is a defence mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

That Quran preaches to treat all wives in the same fashion is a fact. That, in reality, it's not possible seems reasonable to me. And when a wife is not satisfied, well, I know what mine did ;)
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#8  Postby SafeAsMilk » Feb 08, 2019 9:46 pm

Keep It Real wrote:What a load of shite.

The irony :lol:
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#9  Postby Fallible » Feb 08, 2019 10:22 pm

When you say 'as identified by Freud', my brain automatically replaces it with 'as made up by Freud'.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#10  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 09, 2019 2:52 pm

There's actually a fair amount of subsequent empirical support for projection type stuff eg https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=psychological+projection&btnG=

I'm aware through my own introspection (ergh, another yukky Freudian term spit hak spit) that I personally am prone to more than the occasional shallow spot of projection type stuff. In any case, if not projection through the mechanism Freud described, then false consensus effect perhaps:

Some studies were critical of Freud's theory. Research supports the existence of a false-consensus effect whereby humans have a broad tendency to believe that others are similar to themselves, and thus "project" their personal traits onto others. This applies to good traits as well as bad traits and is not a defense mechanism for denying the existence of the trait within the self.[34]

Instead, Newman, Duff, and Baumeister (1997) proposed a new model of defensive projection. In this view, repressors try to suppress thoughts of their undesirable traits, and these efforts make those trait categories highly accessible—so that they are then used all the more often when forming impressions of others. The projection is then only a by-product of the real defensive mechanism.[35]
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#11  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 09, 2019 3:24 pm

tuco wrote:That Quran preaches to treat all wives in the same fashion is a fact. That, in reality, it's not possible seems reasonable to me. And when a wife is not satisfied, well, I know what mine did ;)


Sorry to hear that tuco, and I retract the "flake" remark, my blood was up. I doubt horny saudi royalty who can have the most beautiful 2nd/3rd/nth wives in the land at the drop of a tea towel choose to interpret that passage that way...I mean evidently. Also, if treating even three people of the same gender, nationality, socioeconomic status and ethnicity "equally" is impossible then that's the SJWs doomed to failure :rofl:
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#12  Postby tuco » Feb 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Don't worry about it, I don't mind. Also, don't be sorry because I do not expect my partner to keep sexual monogamy, especially under the mentioned circumstances.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#13  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 10, 2019 12:25 pm

Image

So, how might the "projection" of promiscuity play out in said harem frequenting man, and why would it result in such manifest and draconian societal laws? Perhaps thus:

hidden inner voice of x wrote: I have sex with three different women each week. It is the most profound element of my life, the love making I enjoy. It would be unthinkable for me to go without it. I love my wives and feel closeness to them of unparalleled magnitude. We share the profoundest moments and thoughts. Surely they too must, then, at least desire such a situation for themselves, having sex with several men in a week...If I couldn't bear to go without that then how possibly could they! But...but...being a monkey man and given internal fertilisation it would be unbearably nightmarish for me if my wives were to have sex with other men! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH right, mandatory burkas, no leaving the house/country unaccompanied, no driving, FGM so they get no pleasure from sex and...and..and...the rest! No power or freedom for women in my neighbourhood! Did I say I love my wives?
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#14  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 21, 2019 9:16 am

I reckon fear of women's infidelity is the driving force behind Islam. Basically, my best thread to date, although some might with rounded justification say the bar is hardly set in the stratosphere.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#15  Postby Blackadder » Mar 21, 2019 1:51 pm

Keep It Real wrote:I reckon fear of women's infidelity is the driving force behind Islam. Basically, my best thread to date, although some might with rounded justification say the bar is hardly set in the stratosphere.


You reckon wrong, unfortunately. As to whether it’s your best thread, I have no idea and even less interest in that.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#16  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Well, that's told me! Can't compete with an argument of that depth and sophistication. Given your immense knowledge of this topic it will doubtless not surprise you to learn that I have zero interest in the fact you have little interest in how good this thread is. I'll milk a stray cat later in your honour, oh mighty Blackadder.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#17  Postby Svartalf » Mar 27, 2019 4:51 pm

It's weird enough, or maybe not, that a guy who started henpecked like mohamed was then turned into a kiddy fiddler with an obsession to keep women down and submissive.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#18  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 27, 2019 4:55 pm

I learnt today that the age of consent in Brunei is 14 and spousal rape there is "impossible."

His legacy lives on.
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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#19  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 29, 2019 6:06 pm

In Yemen there is no age of consent. The girl has bugger all say in anything.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


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Re: Projection, power, polygamy and oppression in Islam.

#20  Postby Ironclad » Apr 01, 2019 12:04 am

Svartalf wrote:It's weird enough, or maybe not, that a guy who started henpecked like mohamed was then turned into a kiddy fiddler with an obsession to keep women down and submissive.
I believe this suppressive behaviour come to that region long before Islam. The burkah and other 'modesty garb' does not belong to this culture; no matter how proud the girls try to feel about it, the origins are cruel and sinister. Akkadian perhaps, I forget.
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