What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

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What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#1  Postby Hugin » Nov 29, 2010 7:36 pm

An interesting piece indeed. I'll just borrow two examples, from the same (supposed) event, mind you:

Sahih Muslim Book 001, Number 0325:

It is narrated on the authority of Ibn 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I saw near the Ka'bah a man of fair complexion with straight hair, placing his hands on two persons. Water was flowing from his head or it was trickling from his head. I asked: Who is he? They said: He is Jesus son of Mary or al-Masih son of Mary. The narrator) says: I do not remember which word it was. He (the Holy Prophet) said: And I saw behind him a man with red complexion and thick curly hair, blind in the right eye. I saw in him the greatest resemblance with Ibn Qitan I asked: Who is he? They replied: It is al-Masih al-Dajjal.


Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 649:

Narrated Abdullah:

The Prophet mentioned the Massiah Ad-Dajjal in front of the people saying, Allah is not one eyed while Messsiah, Ad-Dajjal is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape. While sleeping near the Ka'ba last night, I saw in my dream a man of brown color the best one can see amongst brown color and his hair was long that it fell between his shoulders. His hair was lank and water was dribbling from his head and he was placing his hands on the shoulders of two men while circumambulating the Kaba. I asked, 'Who is this?' They replied, 'This is Jesus, son of Mary.' Behind him I saw a man who had very curly hair and was blind in the right eye, resembling Ibn Qatan (i.e. an infidel) in appearance. He was placing his hands on the shoulders of a person while performing Tawaf around the Ka'ba. I asked, 'Who is this? 'They replied, 'The Masih, Ad-Dajjal.' "


What did Jesus look like when Muhammad saw him near the Kaba? The contradictions are irreconcible. The link also contains Hadiths about Muhammad seeing Jesus when I travelled to Heaven, and the descriptions contradict each other there as well.

Did Muhammad ever claim to see Jesus at all, or is this just Arabic mythology from the 7th and 8th centuries? Given that the Hadiths contain so much information about Muhammad, if they are not reliable, then we do indeed know very little about Muhammad, and about the beliefs of the early Muslims.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#2  Postby Oeditor » Nov 29, 2010 8:52 pm

Hugin wrote:Given that the Hadiths contain so much information about Muhammad, if they are not reliable, then we do indeed know very little about Muhammad, and about the beliefs of the early Muslims.
Got it in one! Just consider the kiddy fiddling: if Mo didn't do it, the hadiths saying he did are false, if they're right, he was a dirty old man. Take your pick - but since Muslim scholars claim that hundreds of thousands were false, how can anyone be sure any particular remaining one is true?
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#3  Postby Zwaarddijk » Nov 29, 2010 10:00 pm

Jesus is Michael Jackson. With dyed hair to boot.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#4  Postby aakalim » Nov 29, 2010 10:07 pm

Hadiths are merely eyewitness accounts and reports of the sayings and actions of the Prophet, transmitted through chain of narrations, these may be right or wrong. In fact Muslim scholars themselves claim that many of these Ahadith are not authentic. The very mode through which they are transmitted leaves a lot of room for errors and fabrications to creep into the text. That is why Muslim scholars devised a whole new science of investigating the soundness of Hadith, and this is an ongoing process.

The Hadith you have quoted above are two different ahadith having different chain of narrators. Consider that these two do have minor contradictions in terms of small details i.e whit or brown color, but the basic story that both of them are narrating is the same. So we basically have two different persons, narrating from two different sources what they heard from the Prophet and they basically agree, except for some minor details.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#5  Postby Oeditor » Nov 29, 2010 10:41 pm

aakalim wrote:So we basically have two different persons, narrating from two different sources what they heard from the Prophet and they basically agree, except for some minor details.
Or what they heard from some bloke in whatever passed for an Arabian pub in those days.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#6  Postby Hugin » Nov 29, 2010 11:00 pm

aakalim wrote:Hadiths are merely eyewitness accounts and reports of the sayings and actions of the Prophet, transmitted through chain of narrations, these may be right or wrong. In fact Muslim scholars themselves claim that many of these Ahadith are not authentic. The very mode through which they are transmitted leaves a lot of room for errors and fabrications to creep into the text. That is why Muslim scholars devised a whole new science of investigating the soundness of Hadith, and this is an ongoing process.

The Hadith you have quoted above are two different ahadith having different chain of narrators. Consider that these two do have minor contradictions in terms of small details i.e whit or brown color, but the basic story that both of them are narrating is the same. So we basically have two different persons, narrating from two different sources what they heard from the Prophet and they basically agree, except for some minor details.


The two Hadiths I quoted are from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the two collections considered most authentic by Sunni Muslims.

And I think those differences illustrate a problem with the whole Hadith "science". Jesus' appearance may not be significant in Islamic theology, but if such blatant narrative contradictions from the same supposed event can survive, then something is wrong. Both of those Hadiths are Sahih, yet at least one of them is incorrect.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#7  Postby Assi » Apr 28, 2012 4:16 am

I wanna thank Hugin first to allow me the chance of knowing What prophet Muhammad said about Jesus Christ. Well, he made it easy for me to find it so thanks.

About the discrepancies pointed out. I wanna try to explain and I am sure it would be easy to understand for any one who is lets just say not too biased.

Now this was common knowledge back then as it is today that Jesus Christ ( Isa Ibn-e-Maryam in arabic ) was a middle eastern man of judaic descent. Also, remember that the narration is from a time when world's races were not so shuffled as they are today, as in chinese people were living in China and fair skinned (as in white) people were living in europe and middle eastern people had most commonly brown skin. In this ethnic and geographical context when a middle eastern man say about another middle eastern man that he is fair skinned it does not mean he is white as in blue eyed blond from Scandinavia. It only means he is fair among middle eastern people (and not "fair among white people").
Again, about the hair, usually middle eastern people have wavy hair some more wavy than others and some so less wavy that they are pretty much straight but they are never as straight as some chinese fellow's hair might be. So when it's said they are straight they are only as straight as a middle eastern man's hair can be. And, "lank" and "straight" are pretty much the same, they can be defining characteristics of same hair, so, not contradictory at all.

regards,
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#8  Postby Alan B » Apr 28, 2012 10:16 am

I think that is a pretty reasonable observation, Assi. After all, the general assumption by us in 'the West' is that Asian and Far Eastern peoples have black straight hair - yet Buddha is always depicted with 'curly' hair. Our modern-day presumptions and pre-conceptions cannot even be applied (in some cases) to the last century let alone to the remote past.

Welcome to the Forum, Assi. :cheers:
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#9  Postby chairman bill » Apr 28, 2012 10:27 am

The 'water flowing from his head' nonsense must cast doubt on the observational ability of the alleged witness.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#10  Postby Alan B » Apr 28, 2012 10:33 am

chairman bill wrote:The 'water flowing from his head' nonsense must cast doubt on the observational ability of the alleged witness.

Aw, c'mon, CB, JC had just climbed out of his jacuzzi...
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#11  Postby chairman bill » Apr 28, 2012 10:39 am

'S'obvious really. How did I miss it?
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#12  Postby Assi » Apr 29, 2012 1:58 am

Thanks for the warm welcome AB :) I love to be part of a discussion where people keep an open mind. otherwise argument for the sake of argument is pointless. And I promise I will try my best to see past my own religious or cultural stereotypes and keep an open mind about other's opinions.

Having said that I would also like to point out few things about water dripping at the risk of spoiling the jolly mood here.

It is clear from one narration that Mohammad was asleep when he saw the two men and in the other it is simply not mentioned whether the two men were physically there or it was a vision. But it is counter intuitive to assume or assert that the two were physically present at the same location for Mohammad to see as the two are arch enemies of epic scale( i.e. Jesus and antichrist[Dajjal in arabic]).

Whether we today believe in Jesus Christ's second coming or not and the coming of antichrist or not Mohammad firmly believed in that happening in future. So whole point of sharing this vision is to help his followers to recognise true Messiah when the time comes. After all both Jesus and Antichrist are going to claim to be true Messiah.

Now, thing about Mohammad's visions is that they are symbolic, so AB is very close to the mark when he say Jacuzzi, you see bathing with water is not only physical cleaning but also signifies spiritual cleansing both in Islam and Christianity (Jesus Christ was baptised by John the Baptist). So dripping water in this vision is only the mark of Jesus Christ's sinless nature.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#13  Postby Assi » Apr 29, 2012 3:52 am

On a separate note... Buda or Buddha was not chinese or far eastern he was an Indian prince.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#14  Postby Kenaz » Apr 29, 2012 7:30 am

Citing a book as valid evidence always stroke me as credible as believing the tales from a bar stool, if not less so.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#15  Postby chairman bill » Apr 29, 2012 8:08 am

Assi wrote:Thanks for the warm welcome AB :) I love to be part of a discussion where people keep an open mind ...


I only keep an open mind until such time as data disproves a concept/argument. Keeping an open mind about a topic beyond that point is plain daft.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#16  Postby Alan B » Apr 29, 2012 10:59 am

Assi wrote:On a separate note... Buda or Buddha was not chinese or far eastern he was an Indian prince.

True. But I did say Asian and Far Eastern peoples - that is, including India & the Orient... :)

Edit to clarify.
Last edited by Alan B on Apr 30, 2012 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#17  Postby amok » Apr 30, 2012 5:20 am

Assi wrote:Thanks for the warm welcome AB :) I love to be part of a discussion where people keep an open mind. otherwise argument for the sake of argument is pointless. And I promise I will try my best to see past my own religious or cultural stereotypes and keep an open mind about other's opinions.

Having said that I would also like to point out few things about water dripping at the risk of spoiling the jolly mood here...


Assi, I'm going to apologize to you and and the OP and the others on this thread for not replying to the topic, but I'd like to welcome you to the site as well.

I'm atheist through and through, but I think it's rational to look at logical explanations for seemingly glaring inconsistencies in historical texts, however we view those texts in terms of our own beliefs. That was an interesting point you made.

Cheers, and again, welcome! :smile:
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Re: What did Jesus look like, according to Muhammad?

#18  Postby Assi » Apr 30, 2012 9:47 pm

thanks a lot amok... I love to have difference of opinion because similar minds only produce stale convesations... at least I think so.

AB, sorry I misread that. sorry for acting like a know it all. :)

CB... I wont have it any other way.
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