What is appealing about being a Muslim?

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the mosques...

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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#261  Postby Alan B » Jun 29, 2016 12:57 pm

Al-Fatihah wrote:
Alan B wrote:
Different dictionaries can have different definitions.

I asked precisely "What is your definition of atheism."

You may, of course, quote from your own dictionary.


Response: You say they have different definitions. Not me. So you can back your claim. Until then, my dictionary is any one. You may, of course, quote from any one of them.

The New Penguin English Dictionary (Richard Dawkins on the Advisory Committee :doh: )
Atheism:
"The belief or doctrine that there is no deity."

Compact Oxford English Dictionary
Atheism:
"Disbelief in the existence of a god or gods."

Which one, in your opinion, is correct?
Last edited by Alan B on Jun 29, 2016 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#262  Postby Alan B » Jun 29, 2016 1:06 pm

Al-Fatihah wrote:
Alan B wrote:

:think: Now, where have I seen this argument before. Something to do with watches and watchmakers, methinks.


Response: I don't know where you've seen it before because it is my own original argument.


See here.

You are not the first to think of similar arguments along these lines - and you won't be the last to be refuted.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#263  Postby John Platko » Jun 29, 2016 1:53 pm

Alan B wrote:Since you claim that Allah exists, would you like to have a go at this? This request has been put forward to some Christians here without much enlightenment. As a Muslim, can you do any better?
('Allah' substituted for 'God' for your benefit).
"What you must do now is to prove (or show evidence of) the existence of an interface between a non-physical Allah and a physical universe (or even a physical human being will do). You must then describe the precise nature of the interface: how it is implemented, what 'connections' are used and the translation 'mechanism' across the interface. Bearing in mind, of course, that one side of the interface must be entirely non-physical such that no physical measuring device can detect its presence and that the other side must exist solely in the physical universe."


Oh the equivalent has already been done. David Deutsch's Constructor theory shows how the supernatural, i.e. that which the counter-factuals of our reality preclude from existing in our reality can never-the-less effect our reality.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#264  Postby Al-Fatihah » Jun 29, 2016 2:07 pm

tuco wrote:
Al-Fatihah wrote:

Lets substitute prayer for meditation. Fasting for healthy diet. Charity is charity so is discipline and compassion. Well, it could produce some results. Now, doing all this, is believing in Allah needed to for it to produce results?


Response: There is a difference between getting results, and the best way to get results. Exercise get can help lose weight. Dieting can help lose weight. Diet and exercise is the better way to lose weight. Similarly, you can achieve good and have good results without believing in Allah. Yet it is not the best way, nor will it get you into paradise.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#265  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 29, 2016 2:09 pm

Al-Fatihah wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:

I say, old chap, isn't conquering a bit old hat these days, what?


Response: Conquering a nation by inspiring followers to help you conquer and rule by using human made speech/literature that goes against their liking is humanly impossible. Demonstrating that the conquest of Muhammad (saw) with the inspiration of the Qur'an is a miracle and proof that the Qur'an is the true word of Allah.

More blind counterfactual preaching after already having been corrected.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#266  Postby Al-Fatihah » Jun 29, 2016 2:09 pm

Alan B wrote:
Al-Fatihah wrote:
See here.

You are not the first to think of similar arguments along these lines - and you won't be the last to be refuted.


Response: Yet you failed to refute it, thus refuting yourself.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#267  Postby Al-Fatihah » Jun 29, 2016 2:11 pm

Alan B wrote:
Al-Fatihah wrote:
Alan B wrote:
Different dictionaries can have different definitions.

I asked precisely "What is your definition of atheism."

You may, of course, quote from your own dictionary.


Response: You say they have different definitions. Not me. So you can back your claim. Until then, my dictionary is any one. You may, of course, quote from any one of them.

The New Penguin English Dictionary (Richard Dawkins on the Advisory Committee :doh: )
Atheism:
"The belief or doctrine that there is no deity."

Compact Oxford English Dictionary
Atheism:
"Disbelief in the existence of a god or gods."

Which one, in your opinion, is correct?


Response: Both definitions mean exactly the same. So you can pick whichever you like.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#268  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 29, 2016 2:11 pm

John Platko wrote:
Alan B wrote:Since you claim that Allah exists, would you like to have a go at this? This request has been put forward to some Christians here without much enlightenment. As a Muslim, can you do any better?
('Allah' substituted for 'God' for your benefit).
"What you must do now is to prove (or show evidence of) the existence of an interface between a non-physical Allah and a physical universe (or even a physical human being will do). You must then describe the precise nature of the interface: how it is implemented, what 'connections' are used and the translation 'mechanism' across the interface. Bearing in mind, of course, that one side of the interface must be entirely non-physical such that no physical measuring device can detect its presence and that the other side must exist solely in the physical universe."


Oh the equivalent has already been done. David Deutsch's Constructor theory shows how the supernatural, i.e. that which the counter-factuals of our reality preclude from existing in our reality can never-the-less effect our reality.

So you assert.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#269  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 29, 2016 2:12 pm

Al-Fatihah wrote:
Alan B wrote:
Al-Fatihah wrote:
Alan B wrote:
Different dictionaries can have different definitions.

I asked precisely "What is your definition of atheism."

You may, of course, quote from your own dictionary.


Response: You say they have different definitions. Not me. So you can back your claim. Until then, my dictionary is any one. You may, of course, quote from any one of them.

The New Penguin English Dictionary (Richard Dawkins on the Advisory Committee :doh: )
Atheism:
"The belief or doctrine that there is no deity."

Compact Oxford English Dictionary
Atheism:
"Disbelief in the existence of a god or gods."

Which one, in your opinion, is correct?


Response: Both definitions mean exactly the same. So you can pick whichever you like.

Excep they dont.
Disbelief means to not believe.
The first defintion describes a belief.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#270  Postby John Platko » Jun 29, 2016 2:29 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
John Platko wrote:
Alan B wrote:Since you claim that Allah exists, would you like to have a go at this? This request has been put forward to some Christians here without much enlightenment. As a Muslim, can you do any better?
('Allah' substituted for 'God' for your benefit).
"What you must do now is to prove (or show evidence of) the existence of an interface between a non-physical Allah and a physical universe (or even a physical human being will do). You must then describe the precise nature of the interface: how it is implemented, what 'connections' are used and the translation 'mechanism' across the interface. Bearing in mind, of course, that one side of the interface must be entirely non-physical such that no physical measuring device can detect its presence and that the other side must exist solely in the physical universe."


Oh the equivalent has already been done. David Deutsch's Constructor theory shows how the supernatural, i.e. that which the counter-factuals of our reality preclude from existing in our reality can never-the-less effect our reality.

So you assert.


Indeed I do. :doh:
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#271  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 29, 2016 3:06 pm

John Platko wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
John Platko wrote:
Alan B wrote:Since you claim that Allah exists, would you like to have a go at this? This request has been put forward to some Christians here without much enlightenment. As a Muslim, can you do any better?
('Allah' substituted for 'God' for your benefit).
"What you must do now is to prove (or show evidence of) the existence of an interface between a non-physical Allah and a physical universe (or even a physical human being will do). You must then describe the precise nature of the interface: how it is implemented, what 'connections' are used and the translation 'mechanism' across the interface. Bearing in mind, of course, that one side of the interface must be entirely non-physical such that no physical measuring device can detect its presence and that the other side must exist solely in the physical universe."


Oh the equivalent has already been done. David Deutsch's Constructor theory shows how the supernatural, i.e. that which the counter-factuals of our reality preclude from existing in our reality can never-the-less effect our reality.

So you assert.


Indeed I do. :doh:

Continued lack of evidence noted.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#272  Postby tuco » Jun 29, 2016 4:03 pm

Al-Fatihah wrote:
tuco wrote:
Al-Fatihah wrote:

Lets substitute prayer for meditation. Fasting for healthy diet. Charity is charity so is discipline and compassion. Well, it could produce some results. Now, doing all this, is believing in Allah needed to for it to produce results?


Response: There is a difference between getting results, and the best way to get results. Exercise get can help lose weight. Dieting can help lose weight. Diet and exercise is the better way to lose weight. Similarly, you can achieve good and have good results without believing in Allah. Yet it is not the best way, nor will it get you into paradise.


I see, well, I do not actually want to get to paradise so that is not an issue.

btw in reflection to these two threads:
---
What are the superiorities of Islam over Christianity ? - http://www.rationalskepticism.org/islam ... 52011.html

What are the superiorities of Christianity over Islam ? - http://www.rationalskepticism.org/chris ... 52010.html
---

Without reading them as titles are self-explanatory, any comments? Anything unique/specific, without paradise and except the 5 pillars, about being Muslim? For example, there are provisions in Islam about treating guests. Anything like that in your practice of Islam in day to day life?
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#273  Postby Alan B » Jun 29, 2016 4:25 pm

Al-Fatihah wrote:
Alan B wrote:
The New Penguin English Dictionary (Richard Dawkins on the Advisory Committee :doh: )
Atheism:
"The belief or doctrine that there is no deity."

Compact Oxford English Dictionary
Atheism:
"Disbelief in the existence of a god or gods."

Which one, in your opinion, is correct?


Response: Both definitions mean exactly the same. So you can pick whichever you like.

Utter rubbish. You are showing your ignorance of the English language. The first definition states atheism is a 'belief'. The second definition states atheism is a 'non-belief'.

So I'll ask you again. Which in your opinion is correct?
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#274  Postby Fallible » Jun 29, 2016 5:05 pm

This guy is very familiar to me. He's either been here before, or I've encountered him elsewhere on the web. That fucking ridiculous and completely unnecessary 'response' bollocks is an instant identifier. Of course it's a fucking response, for fuck's fucking sake. There's no need to say it every fucking time.
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Get out of your head and spend less time alone.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#275  Postby Arnold Layne » Jun 29, 2016 5:50 pm

When's he gonna get to the bit about beating your wife? :scratch:
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#276  Postby Alan B » Jun 29, 2016 5:56 pm

Ah, but if you beat your wife with love and kindness, then it's OK. :crazy:
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#277  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 29, 2016 5:57 pm

Arnold Layne wrote:When's he gonna get to the bit about beating your wife? :scratch:


Yep. He has not answered any of my questions but that is par for the course.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#278  Postby Alan B » Jun 29, 2016 6:06 pm

As for this 'Response' gambit, it's the pedantic aloof approach of that Muslim cleric who has memorised the Koran word for word and line for line and because he can instantly quote chapter & verse assumes he therefore has 'scholarly' credentials. Unfortunately, having perfect recall does not necessarily go hand-in-hand with the ability to think.
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#279  Postby BlackBart » Jun 29, 2016 6:47 pm

Arnold Layne wrote:When's he gonna get to the bit about beating your wife? :scratch:


Just as soon as he's finished trotting out the "Look what you made us do" argument every time someone points out that peace loving Muslims blow up a Peace Rally here or gas a few thousand Kurdish villagers there. :coffee:
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Re: What is appealing about being a Muslim?

#280  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 30, 2016 8:34 am

Well he has been sent on holidays. Did not see a mod note.
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