Adventures in the English language; AkaThe YGS thread

[The_Piper]

FB Marketplace ad for bedroom furniture - a "chester draws".

That's particularly brutal. Marketplace is a goldmine for this stuff. Or maybe it's a turdmine.

[The_Piper]

if there are cougars, protect your young men.

I was always able to dive back into my burrow in time to escape.

[Basset Hound]

FB Marketplace ad for bedroom furniture - a "chester draws".

And then Chester shoots. Chester, the deputy on Gunsmoke was a very good shot.

[Evolving]

Draws shoots and leaves.

[Svartalf]

An acquaintance announced that her daughter had spent lockdown "pouring" over her school books.

That's one I've seen often across the years.

[The_Piper]

"..sorry but that's rediculas. Shouldn't be anymore then 400"
a three-fer!

[The_Piper]

His avatar is a selfie in fatigues and holding a long rifle. Here's the quote. Efnisity? What's cheng?

"Just how the Irish and the Germans do it I cheng you and bet I can drink you under the table cus of my Italian efnisity do we have a wager hmmm"

[The_Piper]

I'm watching a 40 year old series of satirical campaign ads from Maine, and someone was holding up a sign "Virgil Bliss, Huzza!"
I always thought Huzza was an internet thing. From that fancy internet thingie:

Origins of Huzzah
The first records of huzzah come from the late 1500s. It is thought to come from a word that sailors used to shout in celebration. It may derive from the word hoise, meaning “to hoist”—which they'd shout when hoisting (raising) something, like the sails of the ship.

[Spearthrower]

Why are there 2 different words for pig (the animal) and pork (the meat taken from that animal) ?
It's not the case for other animals we eat from.

There are. Sheep/mutton; cow/beef. Evidently the "food" words come from the French, the "animal" words are Germanic; but I don't know why that is.

Bit delayed in responding to this, but thanks to the Norman invasion, French was the court language for some time while the general populace continued using Germanic based vocabulary. Over time, those words anglicized and filtered down to the proles.

[don't get me started]

Why are there 2 different words for pig (the animal) and pork (the meat taken from that animal) ?
It's not the case for other animals we eat from.

There are. Sheep/mutton; cow/beef. Evidently the "food" words come from the French, the "animal" words are Germanic; but I don't know why that is.

Bit delayed in responding to this, but thanks to the Norman invasion, French was the court language for some time while the general populace continued using Germanic based vocabulary. Over time, those words anglicized and filtered down to the proles.

Yes, when it comes to the animal world, English can seem a bit odd when looked at from the outside in. The animal versus the meat of the animal (pig vs. pork etc.) is a well-known complication for foreign language learners. Compare this to Japanese where the meat is just the name of the animal plus the word ‘niku’ (meat), - gyu-niku (cattle meat), buta-niku (pig meat), tori-niku (chicken meat), shika-niku (deer meat).
German is straightforward with pork – Schweinfleisch is transparently ‘swine flesh’.
(I'm a bit unsure of some of the other 'meat' words in German...it's been a while.)

Another area of animal terminology that can be baffling is the marking for plurals. Most critters have a regular plural form: dog-dogs, cat-cats, chicken-chickens. But there are two terrestrial animals, deer and sheep, that don’t mark the noun for plural and only show single or plural referent on the verb:
The sheep drinks from the stream.
The sheep drink from the stream.

To add insult to injury for foreign language learners, the expected plural form (noun plus ‘s’, sheeps, deers) can actually be heard in another context - the possessive. (The deer’s antlers, the sheep’s thick coat.) Of course, the apostrophe shows the grammatical workings under the hood – but only in writing and the apostrophe is unheard in the spoken form. For my students it really seems like English is playing silly buggers, just for the fun of it.

‘So, no plural marking on just these two animals, but the same affix that can’t appear as a plural marker can pop up as a possessive marker with exactly the same sound? Cheers, thanks for that.’

The same non-marking also applies to fish and species of fish and other marine creature – One fish, two fish, three salmon, four trout, five shrimp. (But not sharks or whales…just to be awkward.)

Then we come to a really bizarre add-on to the English plural system. Some animals that can normally be pluralized can be unmarked in the plural in some cases- ‘The elephant are downwind of us’. Something similar apparently happens is some cases in French, especially with animals that are hunted. (Reference in Corbett, 2001. Reference available on request).

Then we come to one last piece of embuggeration for Japanese learners of English. In Japanese the way to describe the young of an animal species is to add the word ‘ko’ meaning ‘child’ to the animal name (pig) = buta- kobuta, (dog)=inu -koinu, (cat) = neko – ko neko and so on. Then we come to English with its pups and puppies, kittens, piglets, goslings, foals, calves, leverets and what have you. One of my Japanese mates was moaning about this aspect of English, and I said it was part payment for the black hole which is the Japanese writing system.

[Spearthrower]

My favourite words in the English language are those for infant animals and for groups of animals; especially as its just amazing how basically no one knows all of them. Such a weird factor for there to be dozens of essentially basic words in your language that no native speaker even knows.

For example: which one of these is a collective nouns for bees?

erst, grist, bike, rabble, charm, drift...

The answer is... ALL of them!

[SafeAsMilk]

What about a swarm? That's how I've heard them referred to before. But from now on I'll be using charm, because that's great.

[The_Piper]

Pups. Woodchuck pups

I guess 3 fish and 3 fishes are both correct. I use fish as the plural. Fishes sounds weird to me, like mafia slang. "He'll be sleeping with the fishes".
Fish larvae. Human larvae.

[Hermit]

Pups. Woodchuck pups

Then there is the

pride of lions
murder of crows
hive of bees
flock of sheep
herd of cattle
litter of kittens
pack of dogs
pod of dolphins
school of fish
shoal of fish
gaggle of geese
horde of jackals
aerie of hawks
parliament of owls

among many others. And that's just for animals.

For humans we have

mob of demonstrators
drudge of lexicographers
crowd of onlookers
throng of shoppers

and more.

I love the unruliness of that mongrel mix called the English language.

[The_Piper]

Whoever made up "litter of kittens" was not a cat lover. "Ceiling Cat NOT approved."

[Hermit]

Whoever made up "litter of kittens" was not a cat lover. "Ceiling Cat NOT approved."

Litter fit for a queen. Ceiling cat approves.



Crows and lexicographers might have more grounds to complain.

I'd like to see "a corruption of politicians" become a commonplace term.

[don't get me started]

Pups. Woodchuck pups

When I wrote my post, I was wondering if Piper would be along to give us the correct form for Woodchuck young.
Yep...
Why google when you have an expert on hand?

[don't get me started]

Whoever made up "litter of kittens" was not a cat lover. "Ceiling Cat NOT approved."

Litter fit for a queen. Ceiling cat approves.



Crows and lexicographers might have more grounds to complain.

I'd like to see "a corruption of politicians" become a commonplace term.

Yes there are a few collective nouns that haven't made it into general usage, but perhaps should do.

Here in the LotRS a corruption of politicians would be fitting.
Also -

An indecision of obaachans - (fussy old women who take forever to perform any action in a shop, restaurant etc., where any kind of choice is offered.)

A squeal of schoolgirls - skirts hiked up to alarming lengths and bags festooned with character goods and mascots, phones permanently gripped and used primarily as self grooming aids. They communicate in what can only be described as speeded up, high-pitched whale song.

[Hermit]

I'd like to see "a corruption of politicians" become a commonplace term.

Yes there are a few collective nouns that haven't made it into general usage, but perhaps should do.

Here in the LotRS a corruption of politicians would be fitting.
Also -

An indecision of obaachans - (fussy old women who take forever to perform any action in a shop, restaurant etc., where any kind of choice is offered.)

A squeal of schoolgirls - skirts hiked up to alarming lengths and bags festooned with character goods and mascots, phones permanently gripped and used primarily as self grooming aids. They communicate in what can only be described as speeded up, high-pitched whale song.

Let's not neglect males.

a vanity of middle-aged men
a brawl of boys
an execution of failed generals
a virginity of Incels
a kangaroo court of men's rights activists
a greed of CEOs
a rape of priests

[The_Piper]

A corruption of politicians - that's gold!
A couple of things strike me about the queen picture above, not counting the bizarrity of carrying "royalty" in a heavy, awkward contraption that if it were to fall, would hurt and possibly kill the royal.
1. What the hell is up with the collars.
2. People back then had really skinny legs and high knees. They're buttoned up to the ears on top, but their skinny nerd thighs are exposed to the elements. I guess back then it was sexy for men to show a little leg... a skinny little leg.

Pups. Woodchuck pups

When I wrote my post, I was wondering if Piper would be along to give us the correct form for Woodchuck young.
Yep...
Why google when you have an expert on hand?

It never fails me to insert woodchucks into the dialogue. I guess I have an agenda. I've seen them called kits and cubs, but pup is more usual and my favorite.
I did Google it now and from Tufts - "Young groundhogs are called kits, pups, or sometimes chucklings." Chucklings, I love it! Irreligious coined the term "woodchucklets" here, which I do use occasionally.