Adventures in the English language; AkaThe YGS thread

[Fallible]

Wow! Thanks! I’ll have a proper read of that later.

[LucidFlight]

[don't get me started]

Wow! Thanks! I’ll have a proper read of that later.

On re-reading it, I felt it came over as a bit arrogant and preachy. Apologies for that. I do tend to play the pedagogue a bit when it comes to language....

Actually, it is one of the things that annoys me about certain teachers that I meet. Because they have a captive audience in their classrooms (especially in a Japanese context where the Sensei is an unquestioned font of wisdom), they think that the turn taking and turn allocation rules that apply in their classrooms get transferred to the world outside the classroom....and that they have something important to say on every topic....poor social skills are the result.

I sometimes catch myself doing this and try to nip it in the bud.

[Ironclad]

Looked perfectly fine to me, and very interesting too.

[Fallible]

Wow! Thanks! I’ll have a proper read of that later.

On re-reading it, I felt it came over as a bit arrogant and preachy. Apologies for that. I do tend to play the pedagogue a bit when it comes to language....

Actually, it is one of the things that annoys me about certain teachers that I meet. Because they have a captive audience in their classrooms (especially in a Japanese context where the Sensei is an unquestioned font of wisdom), they think that the turn taking and turn allocation rules that apply in their classrooms get transferred to the world outside the classroom....and that they have something important to say on every topic....poor social skills are the result.

I sometimes catch myself doing this and try to nip it in the bud.

Don't worry, I didn't notice any such tone in your post. You are full of informative stuffs.

[don't get me started]

Thanks Ironclad and Fallible... I'm glad that you found the content worthwhile.

Rest assured that down the pub on a Friday with my mates and cronies I'm sweary bullshiter and piss-taker, not a finger wagging know-all

Back on topic..(kind of)...

A friend who was teaching in the secondary school system in the UK was marking the history projects of his students.
One student may have been deficient in his knowledge of English spelling conventions but was unwittingly insightful about historical realities when he/she wrote.

"The inside of Anglo-Saxon houses were dark and smoky, and there was rough mating on the floor."

[The_Piper]

I dunno, that all went over my head. Does it mean that "wouldn't a pizza be great?" should mean what I mean it to mean, that a pizza would be great?

[Evolving]

Wouldn't you like to know?

[zulumoose]

I wood

[Evolving]

Ah, Groot. He is so sweet.

[don't get me started]

I dunno, that all went over my head. Does it mean that "wouldn't a pizza be great?" should mean what I mean it to mean, that a pizza would be great?

You are right on the button there... 'Wouldn't pizza be great?' definitely indicates that the speaker has a preference for pizza. But, the use of the modal verb 'would' places the utterance as a tentative suggestion, and it indicates to the recipient that they (the recipient) has agency in the decision about what to eat, and the case is far from closed. It is all about recipient design and avoiding a face threatening act (FTA), that is, imposing on the other and denying them agency.

Consider the common way that children express themselves... (I want, I want, I want) There is no recipient design there and the child is not concerned with the preferences of other persons.

The negative polarity of this statement is different to the negative polarity of the 'Isn't it raining?' examples I gave up-thread. In those cases, a truth condition was the focus... raining now? Yes or No?
In the case of 'Wouldn't Pizza be great' , negative polarity with a modal verb placed in the 'past tense' form (will---would) is a well recognized formula for offering a suggestion that projects alignment and agreement in the subsequent turn.

A: 'Wouldn't pizza be great?'
B: 'Yeah, lets get pepperoni.'

[Hermit]

No! Pineapple and ham.

[aban57]

No! Pineapple and ham.

Together ???? You're a monster

[Hermit]

No! Pineapple and ham.

Together ???? You're a monster

I knew some pizza nazi would think that. I made sure to have a nearby door for a quick enough exit handy for that reason.

Ham and pineapple is among my top ten pizza combinations, #1 being Napolitana. With garlic, of course. And anchovy. Do I need to prepare for another quick getaway?

[The_Piper]

I like-ah cheese-ah pizza. No-ah pepperoni. Pineapple e sacrileg-eh!!

[The_Piper]

I dunno, that all went over my head. Does it mean that "wouldn't a pizza be great?" should mean what I mean it to mean, that a pizza would be great?

You are right on the button there... 'Wouldn't pizza be great?' definitely indicates that the speaker has a preference for pizza. But, the use of the modal verb 'would' places the utterance as a tentative suggestion, and it indicates to the recipient that they (the recipient) has agency in the decision about what to eat, and the case is far from closed. It is all about recipient design and avoiding a face threatening act (FTA), that is, imposing on the other and denying them agency.

Consider the common way that children express themselves... (I want, I want, I want) There is no recipient design there and the child is not concerned with the preferences of other persons.

The negative polarity of this statement is different to the negative polarity of the 'Isn't it raining?' examples I gave up-thread. In those cases, a truth condition was the focus... raining now? Yes or No?
In the case of 'Wouldn't Pizza be great' , negative polarity with a modal verb placed in the 'past tense' form (will---would) is a well recognized formula for offering a suggestion that projects alignment and agreement in the subsequent turn.

A: 'Wouldn't pizza be great?'
B: 'Yeah, lets get pepperoni.'

I knew I was right. My friend was probably trying to get back at me for chuckling at the way she says mirror (meer ).

[romansh]

Looked perfectly fine to me, and very interesting too.

[Hermit]

I like-ah cheese-ah pizza. No-ah pepperoni. Pineapple e sacrileg-eh!!

Pineapple on pizza is the best ever Canadian invention. If there were such a thing as the Nobel prize for culinary achievements, Sam Panopoulos would have been a shoo-in for it. Alas, the genius behind this utterly delicious creation died on the 8th of June 2017, so he will never receive his just deserts now. Ontario ought to build a statue in his honour to make up for it.

[The_Piper]

I like-ah cheese-ah pizza. No-ah pepperoni. Pineapple e sacrileg-eh!!

Pineapple on pizza is the best ever Canadian invention. If there were such a thing as the Nobel prize for culinary achievements, Sam Panopoulos would have been a shoo-in for it. Alas, the genius behind this utterly delicious creation died on the 8th of June 2017, so he will never receive his just deserts now. Ontario ought to build a statue in his honour to make up for it.

Canada is the culprit, eh? That makes sense.
It's popular up here where there are few Italian-Americans. That's fine. What isn't fine is the scarcity of plain cheese pizza. Most of the (scant few) places who sell by the slice don't sell cheese slices. There's a frozen brand that I used to buy (mama rosa) but they only stock the pepperoni flavor at local grocery stores. I like pepperoni, but on pizza it doesn't make it taste better, I'd rather keep them separate.

[aban57]

No! Pineapple and ham.

Together ???? You're a monster

I knew some pizza nazi would think that. I made sure to have a nearby door for a quick enough exit handy for that reason.

Ham and pineapple is among my top ten pizza combinations, #1 being Napolitana. With garlic, of course. And anchovy. Do I need to prepare for another quick getaway?

Oh no, I love anchovy. Where I grew up, we put them in our salads
I don't mind pineapple on pizzas, although I never tried personally. It's the mix with ham that bothers me.