Carrot and Stick

Has this phrase changed its meaning?

Discuss various aspects of natural language.

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Re: Carrot and Stick

#21  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Sep 19, 2012 11:25 am

I'm keeping my options open. I hear a lot of organisations value employees who have had experience as a donkey.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#22  Postby Fallible » Sep 19, 2012 11:25 am

I'm trying quite hard not to turn this into yet another thread full of horse puns.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#23  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Sep 19, 2012 11:27 am

I wouldn't be adverse to such an occurence.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#24  Postby Matt_B » Sep 19, 2012 11:28 am

CookieJon wrote:
Supported by the fact that the mule cannot move away from the stick, and that using a carrot and a stick simultaneously is redundant, some[who?] claim that this usage of phrase is erroneous, and that it in fact comes from the figure of a carrot on a stick. In this case, the driver would tie a carrot on a string to a long stick and dangle it in front of the donkey, just out of its reach. As the donkey moved forward to get the carrot, it pulled the cart and the driver so that the carrot would always remain out of reach.


and “Carrot on a stick” vs. “the carrot or the stick.” reckons the earliest citation is too ambiguous to tell which is "correct".

Vindicated!!


Er... does it? I thought it said quite the opposite:

“1948 Economist 11 Dec. 957/2 The material shrinking of rewards and lightening of penalties, the whittling away of stick and carrot. [Too bad the Economist’s writer switched the order in the second part of this example, but the distinction is clear.]"
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#25  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Sep 19, 2012 11:31 am

Clearly wikipedia isn't going to solve this. I propose Cookiejon and Matt_B have a duel. The winner gets a carrot. The loser is hit with a stick.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#26  Postby Evolving » Sep 19, 2012 11:31 am

Obviously the Economist was contemplating someone who would rather have a stick of rock than a carrot.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#27  Postby Fallible » Sep 19, 2012 11:33 am

Crocodile Gandhi wrote:Clearly wikipedia isn't going to solve this. I propose Cookiejon and Matt_B have a duel. The winner gets a carrot. The loser is hit with a stick.


I was going to propose that the chief weapon of one combatant should be general encouragement and a system of rewards, while the other should employ shouted admonishment and violent physical contact.
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She never listened to no hater, liar,
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#28  Postby Crocodile Gandhi » Sep 19, 2012 11:37 am

Fallible wrote:
Crocodile Gandhi wrote:Clearly wikipedia isn't going to solve this. I propose Cookiejon and Matt_B have a duel. The winner gets a carrot. The loser is hit with a stick.


I was going to propose that the chief weapon of one combatant should be general encouragement and a system of rewards, while the other should employ shouted admonishment and violent physical contact.


Ah, I see what you're getting at. Otherwise, we could attach the necessary weapon to vanquish the other combatant to the end of a stick and then harness each combatant to some sort of cart contraption. Should either combatant reach their weapon they can use it on the other one.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#29  Postby Fallible » Sep 19, 2012 11:39 am

:plot: I'm liking the sound of this. This is an It's A Knockout/18th Century honour-based death match mash-up.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#30  Postby Matt_B » Sep 19, 2012 11:43 am

I think I'll respectfully withdraw from any contest where the earliest citation doesn't settle it, thanks.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#31  Postby CookieJon » Sep 19, 2012 11:45 am

Crocodile Gandhi wrote:I wouldn't be adverse to such an occurence.

Let me assuage you.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#32  Postby virphen » Sep 19, 2012 6:30 pm

I hope you lot monager to deal with this ok.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#33  Postby Animavore » Sep 19, 2012 6:44 pm

I remember on Channel Four years ago they had a show called The Carrot and the Stick. On it they had two teams who by the end of the show had to complete a grueling, military obstacle course after something like a month's training, maybe even just two weeks. Both teams were divided with evenly matched teams, both with a Mr. Muscle-type weedy guy.
The 'stick' team were given boot camp style training, up at dawn, shouted at and abused, the works (think Full Metal Jacket). The 'carrot' team were given team building with camp fires and singing with the strongest of the team helping the weakest.
My favourite part was when the two teams, who had been training away from each other for the most part, had to set up a camp within yards of each other. The stick team were sent to bed early to be up at the crack of dawn while the carrot team were up drinking beer from a cooler and playing bongos and singing much to the aggravation of stick team who found it difficult to sleep and were getting right wound up. Of course, this was the point. It was actually part of the stick to be shown what a good time the others were having and to use that anger to motivate them further.

In the end the carrot team won. On the stick team they all had to make it individually. The weedy guy on their team made it though not without difficulty. The carrot team were allowed help each other so the weaker ones were being pulled and jaunted over walls etc...

So that's my story.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#34  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Sep 19, 2012 6:50 pm

I've heard the carrot and stick analogy used both ways but the verbiage changes depending on the meaning.

Carrot and stick = incentive and punishment.
Carrot on a stick = holding out reward to encourage positive action.
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#35  Postby Fallible » Sep 19, 2012 8:14 pm

Was the stick in either scenario cheese covered?
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#36  Postby virphen » Sep 19, 2012 8:15 pm

Fallible wrote:Was the stick in either scenario cheese covered?


You ass, that only works on rats!
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#37  Postby Fallible » Sep 19, 2012 8:16 pm

Well don't I just feel silly now!
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#38  Postby CookieJon » Sep 24, 2012 7:47 am

Here's another one... "Close minded".

I'm sure that used to just be "closed-minded".
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#39  Postby Fallible » Sep 24, 2012 8:55 am

Yeah, I hate that. I also hate it when people use a '-' for no discernible reason. Some people's posts are full of unnecessary dashes, eg.

''I looked-up on the web-site and saw people had not thought-out their answers. I flipped-out and decided to stay at-home.''
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Carrot and Stick

#40  Postby Animavore » Sep 24, 2012 8:59 am

Close minded is fairly accurate. It means their mind never wanders too far from a set and quite narrow path :smug:
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