"Gendered pronouns notoriously are the front line of such consciousness-raising. He or she must ask himself or herself whether his or her sense of style could ever allow himself or herself to write like this." -Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
How much sense is there in procrastinating on these issues? At some point, we would like to have gender-abstract personal pronouns, and we would want them to sound good.
For starters, how about:
he, she, ze ("zee")
his, her, zir ("zeer")
him, her, zem ("zeem"), zer ("zur"), or zerm ("zurm")
I was thinking, it might be a bit unfair to those who speak with a German accent, but it is at least a possibility, among others.
What are your ideas?
Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
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Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#1 
by Scott H » May 26, 2010 11:35 pm
http://www.hoge-essays.com/cdl.html
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
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Scott H - THREAD STARTER
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#2 by wunksta » May 26, 2010 11:44 pm
'one'
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#4 by Sityl » May 26, 2010 11:48 pm
"Roux", after the somewhat androgenous performer Elly Jackson who is 1/2 the duo "La Roux" which also happens to be the best band of all time.
Stephen Colbert wrote:Now, like all great theologies, Bill [O'Reilly]'s can be boiled down to one sentence - 'There must be a god, because I don't know how things work.'
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#5 by GreyICE » May 27, 2010 12:06 am
I suggest that what we have works fine. One can always find another option if one is so inclined.
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#6 by Scott H » May 27, 2010 1:02 am
Yes, but what should we do when an actual noun occurs? For example,
"In order that the participant be fully aware of the guidelines, he or she must ... himself or herself ... so that his or her ..."
We cannot replace these pronouns with 'one,' as it would result in grammatical error:
"In order that the participant be fully aware of the guidelines, one must ... oneself ... so that one's ..."
Here, one does not explicitly refer to the participant, but could refer to anyone: the accompaniment, the manager, or even the reader. How do we get around this?
http://www.hoge-essays.com/cdl.html
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
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Scott H - THREAD STARTER
- Name: Scott Hoge
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#7 by GreyICE » May 27, 2010 1:11 am
Well I'd say that the major problem of that sentence is that it's passive as all hells.
At this stage the participant should review the guidelines in order to ensure that they are fully aware of them.
Don't lead your sentences off with dangling... sentences. And all is well with the worlds (I can actually write well, I just choose to be less formal on message boards).
At this stage the participant should review the guidelines in order to ensure that they are fully aware of them.
Don't lead your sentences off with dangling... sentences. And all is well with the worlds (I can actually write well, I just choose to be less formal on message boards).
A helpful guide to winning at forums:
general-chat/greyice-s-guide-to-logical-fallacies-and-winning-debates-t11661.html
general-chat/greyice-s-guide-to-logical-fallacies-and-winning-debates-t11661.html
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#8 by shh » May 27, 2010 1:35 am
"In order that the participant be fully aware of the guidelines they must yadayada." 
wiki wrote: despite the fact that chocolate is not a fruit[citation needed]
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#9 by Scott H » May 27, 2010 1:38 am
That's cheating! 
http://www.hoge-essays.com/cdl.html
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
-
Scott H - THREAD STARTER
- Name: Scott Hoge
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#10 by shh » May 27, 2010 1:39 am
Lol why?
wiki wrote: despite the fact that chocolate is not a fruit[citation needed]
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#11 by Scott H » May 27, 2010 1:42 am
'They' is plural; 'participant' is singular.
http://www.hoge-essays.com/cdl.html
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
-
Scott H - THREAD STARTER
- Name: Scott Hoge
- Posts: 242
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#12 by shh » May 27, 2010 1:46 am
Pretty sure it's standard use on this side of the pond, since you're referring to more than one option, even if there's only one person eventually chosen.
Isn't making your own up kinda cheating anyway?
But hell, I'll change mine, I now choose "grumphle".
Isn't making your own up kinda cheating anyway?
But hell, I'll change mine, I now choose "grumphle".
wiki wrote: despite the fact that chocolate is not a fruit[citation needed]
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shh - Posts: 1523
Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#13 by Scott H » May 27, 2010 1:49 am
No, it's not standard use unless the noun itself is plural.
http://www.hoge-essays.com/cdl.html
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
-
Scott H - THREAD STARTER
- Name: Scott Hoge
- Posts: 242
- Age: 37
- Country: United States
Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#14 by shh » May 27, 2010 1:55 am
Scott H wrote:No, it's not standard use unless the noun itself is plural.
Ok common use then...
Anyway, I'm sticking with grumphle now.
wiki wrote: despite the fact that chocolate is not a fruit[citation needed]
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shh - Posts: 1523
Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#15 by epepke » May 27, 2010 1:57 am
She, he, and/or it, spelled s/h/it.
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#16 by shh » May 27, 2010 1:59 am
rofl
wiki wrote: despite the fact that chocolate is not a fruit[citation needed]
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shh - Posts: 1523
Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#17 by rEvolutionist » May 27, 2010 2:06 am
Scott H wrote:'They' is plural; 'participant' is singular.
I don't know about it being standard use or not, but this has always bugged me too. Fundamentally it just seems wrong, but I find the english that I speak (as opposed to the probably more correct form of english) is full of these little quirks.
God is a carrot.
Carrots exist.
Therefore God exists (and is a carrot).
Carrots exist.
Therefore God exists (and is a carrot).
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#18 by wunksta » May 27, 2010 2:15 am
but 'said' isnt necessary, see:
In English, one can be considered to be overly formal, and people tend to avoid it. However, in doing so, they encounter problems only resolvable by awkward phrasings or a significant drop in formality. In particular, phrasing a sentence in a gender neutral way may require the passive voice, singular they, pluralising, you, or circumlocution. In addition, the word one can also be used for inanimate objects, creating possible confusion in careless writing. For example,
If one chooses to disobey the rules, one must be dealt with.
The second one may co-refer with the first, or it may refer to a specific rule. (If this sentence were spoken at all, the second one would require distinctive intonation for the second interpretation.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_(pronoun)
of course, 'the participant' could also be used.
The night is dark and full of terrors...
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#19 by GreyICE » May 27, 2010 2:43 am
Scott H wrote:'They' is plural; 'participant' is singular.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/they
False. They may be used as a nominative case of he, she, or it. May ALSO be used as indefinite single person.
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Re: Invent your own androgynous personal pronouns!
#20 by Scott H » May 27, 2010 3:18 am
Interesting. 'They' still sounds somewhat awkward, however.
'Said one' might work, but would we continue to say 'said one,' or being saying 'one'?
'Said one' might work, but would we continue to say 'said one,' or being saying 'one'?
http://www.hoge-essays.com/cdl.html
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
I will not judge you by the color of your skin. But if I have to, I will judge you by the volume of your subwoofer.
-
Scott H - THREAD STARTER
- Name: Scott Hoge
- Posts: 242
- Age: 37
- Country: United States
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