Language degradation

Discuss various aspects of natural language.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: Language degradation

#21  Postby mraltair » Oct 25, 2010 7:29 am

Elena wrote:
mraltair wrote:
twistor59 wrote:Does anybody think that the apostrophe that seem's to be creeping into plural's and, well, anything ending in an "s" will eventually be adopted as standard ?


Don't you mean a's?

Nope, the s is unnecessary because the next word starts with s.

:leaving: :grin:

:doh: Silly me! I should've known.
User avatar
mraltair
 
Posts: 5368

European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Language degradation

#22  Postby archibald » Oct 25, 2010 7:39 am

:coffee:
"It seems rather obvious that plants have free will. Don't know why that would be controversial."
(John Platko)
archibald
 
Posts: 10294
Male

Country: Northern Ireland
Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#23  Postby Daan » Dec 15, 2010 11:12 am

On the Dutch television there was an interesting discussion on the subject. Between 1500 and the 20th century, language became stricter and stricter, thanks to a culture of books and texts. Before 1500 there were no standard languages and often people could say different words that mean the same. One distinction in Dutch that is often confused is between dan (than) and als (if). It used to be that both can be used for both circumstances, until a strict seperation was made by writers. But, both words are still being confused today and throuout the last centuries. The emergence of the radio, television and internet is reversing the strictness of language and language becomes fluid again.
Daan
 
Posts: 1482
Age: 42
Male

Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#24  Postby Saim » Dec 21, 2010 8:12 am

Daan wrote:The emergence of the radio, television and internet is reversing the strictness of language and language becomes fluid again.

I think to a certain extent it is becoming less fluid, in that there is a tendency in many languages due to global media to move towards the prestige dialect. English is experiencing dialect leveling (a notable country being that in my home country of Australia, Australian slang is being replaced by American slang in younger generations).
User avatar
Saim
 
Posts: 1138
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#25  Postby I'm With Stupid » Dec 21, 2010 9:25 am

I still hate anyone who can't pronounce "ask" properly.
Image
User avatar
I'm With Stupid
 
Posts: 9632
Age: 36
Male

Country: Malaysia
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#26  Postby Daan » Dec 21, 2010 11:57 am

Saim wrote:
Daan wrote:The emergence of the radio, television and internet is reversing the strictness of language and language becomes fluid again.

I think to a certain extent it is becoming less fluid, in that there is a tendency in many languages due to global media to move towards the prestige dialect. English is experiencing dialect leveling (a notable country being that in my home country of Australia, Australian slang is being replaced by American slang in younger generations).


Yes, you are right. The present global mass culture means that everything is Americanized. Maybe in a couple of decades it will be followed by a Chinese dominance. But, the ecological disaster might reverse the process.
Daan
 
Posts: 1482
Age: 42
Male

Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#27  Postby MrFungus420 » Dec 22, 2010 5:15 am

Wiðercora wrote:Language degradation is not caused by chavs, teenagers, text-speak or even Americans.

It's caused by people who rename soap as a 'cleansing bar'.


+1

And "used car" to "previously-owned transportation". (Uh-oh...I think I might sense a derail coming on)
Atheism alone is no more a religion than health is a disease. One may as well argue over which brand of car pedestrians drive.
- AronRa
MrFungus420
 
Posts: 3914

Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Language degradation

#28  Postby jaydot » Dec 25, 2010 7:42 am

stephen fry is utterly brilliant.
User avatar
jaydot
 
Posts: 1772

Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#29  Postby Saim » Jan 06, 2011 5:57 am

I'm With Stupid wrote:I still hate anyone who can't pronounce "ask" properly.

I pronounce it like "assed" in the past tense. It's hard to pronounce a 3-letter consonant cluster.
User avatar
Saim
 
Posts: 1138
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#30  Postby xrayzed » Jan 06, 2011 6:59 am

Wiðercora wrote:Language degradation is not caused by chavs, teenagers, text-speak or even Americans.

It's caused by people who rename soap as a 'cleansing bar'.


There actually is a distinction between soap and cleansers. A cleansing bar/cleanser is a cleaning product formulated specifically for use on the face.

The boundaries aren't always clear-cut, but the label is useful. While a cleanser may contain soap, they are specifically intended/made for use on facial skin; they are usually pH neutral (soaps are alkaline), contain moisturisers, and so on. The details of how they achieve this can vary, but the point is that calling something a cleanser provides a useful distinction to consumers.

Even the US Food and Drug administration uses the distinction between "soaps" and "cleansers", with "soaps" specifically defined to be products in which "the bulk of the nonvolatile matter in the product consists of an alkali salt of fatty acids and the product's detergent properties are due to the alkali-fatty acid compounds, and the product is labeled, sold, and represented solely as soap [21 CFR 701.20]"

This distinction is useful because it determines how a particular product should be regulaated: "If a product intended to cleanse the human body does not meet all the criteria for soap, as listed above, it is either a cosmetic or a drug."

Source: http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceCo ... 074201.htm

This can produce some weirdness, such as a product that doesn't contain soap as defined by the FDA might still market itself as a soap, but be regulated as a cosmetic.
A thinking creationist is an oxymoron. A non-thinking creationist is just a moron.
(Source: johannessiig, here)
User avatar
xrayzed
 
Posts: 1053
Age: 62
Male

Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#31  Postby Saim » Jan 06, 2011 7:02 am

Daan wrote:
Saim wrote:
Daan wrote:The emergence of the radio, television and internet is reversing the strictness of language and language becomes fluid again.

I think to a certain extent it is becoming less fluid, in that there is a tendency in many languages due to global media to move towards the prestige dialect. English is experiencing dialect leveling (a notable country being that in my home country of Australia, Australian slang is being replaced by American slang in younger generations).


Yes, you are right. The present global mass culture means that everything is Americanized. Maybe in a couple of decades it will be followed by a Chinese dominance. But, the ecological disaster might reverse the process.

I don't think it can just be generalized down to just "Americanization". Yes, that is part of it, and other cultures are being Americanized. But dialect leveling is also occurring in other cultures and this has less to do with Americanization than being more connected with communities who speak the same language. So I’d think that, for example, Quebecois and Hexagonal French will not split into different languages because of global communication and travel. This is despite the fact that Old French split into many (mostly endangered) distinct languages (Norman, standard French, Walloon, Picard) relatively recently.

You’re also ignoring a third possibility - that there will be no civilization-destroying environmental disaster and that the world will become more flat (i.e., no more superpowers). This is probably a preferred future.
User avatar
Saim
 
Posts: 1138
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#32  Postby cavarka9 » Mar 15, 2011 6:04 am

ayee kum prom eh kolomized bvorltd. Ayee hum borsed 2 leev jim eh bvorltd vear Inglish phas decome mesessary teh glearn. Suh aye bhav beken ip opon mekud elf teh bin10tionally Dgrade yeeeth. :cheers:
buu kares?, bile gife vis dere de appy.
Every moment is a choice.Choices you make now determine your destiny.free yourself of old choices made. Success is a journey,not a destination.
User avatar
cavarka9
 
Name: prajna
Posts: 3256

Country: 21.0000° N, 78.0000° E
India (in)
Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#33  Postby Matt8819 » Mar 15, 2011 9:52 am

akigr8 wrote:Stephen Fry on the subject. :lol:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY[/youtube]


The full podcast is awesome. Just half an hour of him waxing rhapsodic over language and such. It's a great listen :cheers:
User avatar
Matt8819
RS Donator
 
Name: Matt
Posts: 5284
Age: 32
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Language degradation

#34  Postby LucidFlight » Mar 15, 2011 10:13 am

I think Stephen Fry is a pompous, overrated potty-mouth! :snooty:
Not really. I think he's well brilliant. If only I had a tenth of his knowledge and erudition. :dopey:
(Then I might know what erudition meant.) :think:
OFFICIAL MEMBER: QUANTUM CONSTRUCTOR CONSCIOUSNESS QUALIA KOALA COLLECTIVE.
User avatar
LucidFlight
RS Donator
 
Name: Kento
Posts: 10801
Male

Country: UK/US/AU/SG
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Previous

Return to Linguistics

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest