More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#21  Postby Emmeline » Dec 07, 2013 5:54 pm

I can't bear it - I have to switch off when people talk like that.
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#22  Postby The_Piper » Dec 07, 2013 6:41 pm

JVRaines wrote:Here's a somewhat more erudite analysis of the vocal fry vogue.

Do You Creak?
I hear the uptalk, but I don't think I notice the creak. I need more examples.
None of it is particularly annoying to me. :scratch:
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#23  Postby JVRaines » Dec 07, 2013 10:49 pm

The_Piper wrote:I hear the uptalk, but I don't think I notice the creak. I need more examples.

The fry is low in volume and pitch, so it's not as noticeable as uptalk. But it comes off as irritatingly bored and dismissive. Here's a parody to make it quite clear.

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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#24  Postby I'm With Stupid » Dec 08, 2013 6:30 am

I wonder if these people will still talk like this in 10 years time. My guess is no. My girlfriend told me she used to talk in that London fake-gangster accent that some teenagers did (i.e. Ali G) but now she speaks like a human.
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#25  Postby Beatrice » Dec 08, 2013 7:25 am

Agrippina wrote:Horrible isn't it?

Listen to New Zealanders, a lot of them do it as well.


No they don't.

I've only ever heard one New Zealander talking like this, a newsreader on the radio. That's it.
Phew... for a minute there, I lost myself, I lost myself.....
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#26  Postby Agrippina » Dec 08, 2013 7:41 am

:lol: Beatrice, I'm joking. It's the cricket commentators who do it. They're the only Kiwis I hear. (Possibly it's the Aussies, not the Kiwis). :grin:
In 1995 when we had that world cup here, and beat NZ, I met them at a party we hosted at our office. They didn't speak like that. It's just a rugby/cricket thing. :thumbup:
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#27  Postby don't get me started » Dec 08, 2013 11:54 am

A friend visiting from the UK noted that I had become prone to episodes of upspeak.
I was wondering if it is the influence of my American and Canadian co-workers, or possibly the consequence of spending a lot of time speaking English to people who may well not be able to understand what I'm saying, or else modeling what my Japanese acquaintances and students do when speaking English.
In my field of research, (Conversation Analysis) this is termed 'try marking'.

Constant working with Americans and Canadians for nigh on two decades has altered my speaking. I now refer to 'sneakers' quite unconsciously, meaning 'trainers', and other imported Americanisms. Mind you my American friend now refers to being drunk as 'pissed' or even 'pissed up' so it is a two way street.

I was once holding forth whilst stuffing my mouth with some baked goods. My American friend was having trouble understanding me and said 'I'm sorry, I don't speak cookie.' I swallowed the mouthful of choco-chip and retorted, "You fool, do you know nothing? Cookie is merely a dialect of biscuit." Ha Ha...how we laughed. (Things get pretty desperate after the 100th 'Can you use chopsticks? conversation of the week...)
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#28  Postby Agrippina » Dec 08, 2013 12:44 pm

English being the only language I speak with fluency, is interesting to me.

I'm fascinated by all the different ways it's spoken, Americans don't all sound the same, and Canadians speak with a softer, but similar way. The Australians and New Zealanders don't sound the same, and some English accents really confuse me. I'll be watching an English TV show and say "whaaaat?" There are words I simply do not understand. Africans give their education away by the way they speak. If they've been educated in "English" schools, they don't speak the way that their township-educated cousins do. And Afrikaans-speakers have a more guttural way of speaking.

Now because of American TV, mainly Africans are adopting American words and pronunciations, for instance "record." In English, it's "reh-cord" in American "rekkid." Now some of our news readers are saying "so and so broke the breast stroke rekkid" or "the state showed that there was no rekkid of the conversation ." Grrrr! No, that's the way you say it when you sing, when you speak it's a reh-cord.
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#29  Postby don't get me started » Dec 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Agrippina, your post has highlighted one of the biggest problems for learners of English...the slippery vowels that we have.
My Japanese students are baffled, because Japanese has only 5 vowels and they are constant across the whole of Japan, across all age groups and social classes. The word 'Dekiru' means 'can/ have the ability to' and the E and I and U sounds are always the same when this word is said. Consider the variety of vowels (and dipthongs and tripthongs) that native speakers of English employ, to say the word 'can't.'
The 'Cahnt' of a cockney and the 'Cornt' of a Geordie, the 'ceynt' of a deep south American and the 'caent' of someone from Boston. (These are the approximations that I can give without resorting to IPA)
Because the vowels remain constant (more or less) in Japanese pronunciation, Japanese dialects do things other than vary the vowel in a given word. Dekinai/Dekimasen (polite) is the Tokyo/ Standard version, of 'can't', but down here in the Kansai area people say 'Dekihen' The vowels are standard, the form is pure Osaka.
Vowels in English are as slippery as a greasy piglet pulled through a pipe.
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#30  Postby The_Piper » Dec 08, 2013 1:27 pm

Record has 2 pronunciations of course, it is a noun and verb. "That point just broke the record."
"You're a really good musician, you should record some of you stuff."
Do some British people use the verb pronunciation for the noun too?
Or are you talking about American pronunciations where the r is somewhat silent? That would be rekkud for me, not rekkiid.
Saying it out loud it sounds like rekkid anyway I guess. :lol:
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#31  Postby The_Piper » Dec 08, 2013 1:39 pm

don't get me started wrote:Agrippina, your post has highlighted one of the biggest problems for learners of English...the slippery vowels that we have.
My Japanese students are baffled, because Japanese has only 5 vowels and they are constant across the whole of Japan, across all age groups and social classes. The word 'Dekiru' means 'can/ have the ability to' and the E and I and U sounds are always the same when this word is said. Consider the variety of vowels (and dipthongs and tripthongs) that native speakers of English employ, to say the word 'can't.'
The 'Cahnt' of a cockney and the 'Cornt' of a Geordie, the 'ceynt' of a deep south American and the 'caent' of someone from Boston. (These are the approximations that I can give without resorting to IPA)
Because the vowels remain constant (more or less) in Japanese pronunciation, Japanese dialects do things other than vary the vowel in a given word. Dekinai/Dekimasen (polite) is the Tokyo/ Standard version, of 'can't', but down here in the Kansai area people say 'Dekihen' The vowels are standard, the form is pure Osaka.
Vowels in English are as slippery as a greasy piglet pulled through a pipe.

People from Boston pronounce can't just like ant, is that what you mean? "Caent" reads to me like a southern drawl. Like cayant. :)
Southern drawls sound as awkward to me as British accents. There are different southern accents too of course. "Ah thank that'll buh graite" (I think that'll be great :lol: )
For me it's "pahk the cah in harvuhd yahd".
Another southern one that makes me holla :naughty2: Hwhayull, that hwhouldn't buh nass for the state of tayuxis" (well, that wouldn't be nice for the state of Texas.)

Who are Geordies?
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#32  Postby Agrippina » Dec 08, 2013 1:54 pm

The_Piper wrote:Record has 2 pronunciations of course, it is a noun and verb. "That point just broke the record."
"You're a really good musician, you should record some of you stuff."
Do some British people use the verb pronunciation for the noun too?
Or are you talking about American pronunciations where the r is somewhat silent? That would be rekkud for me, not rekkiid.
Saying it out loud it sounds like rekkid anyway I guess. :lol:


Yes, we use record for both noun and verb. The problem here is that they're changing to use the "rekkid" one for both, and it just sounds wrong. I'm about to correct our one news channel about that. :roll:
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#33  Postby don't get me started » Dec 08, 2013 1:55 pm

Yeah, it's difficult to render the nuances of accent and pronunciation using just regular alphabet conventions...

Geordies are people from the Newcastle area of North-east England. They have a very very distinctive accent and dialect...
Apparently it is one of the most trusted accents in the UK and much sought after by call centers, or so I've heard.
" Diven't say nowt, will ye not, yeh'll get wrong from yuh fatha, like." (Don't say anything, or your dad will be angry.)
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#34  Postby Agrippina » Dec 08, 2013 1:56 pm

The_Piper wrote:
don't get me started wrote:Agrippina, your post has highlighted one of the biggest problems for learners of English...the slippery vowels that we have.
My Japanese students are baffled, because Japanese has only 5 vowels and they are constant across the whole of Japan, across all age groups and social classes. The word 'Dekiru' means 'can/ have the ability to' and the E and I and U sounds are always the same when this word is said. Consider the variety of vowels (and dipthongs and tripthongs) that native speakers of English employ, to say the word 'can't.'
The 'Cahnt' of a cockney and the 'Cornt' of a Geordie, the 'ceynt' of a deep south American and the 'caent' of someone from Boston. (These are the approximations that I can give without resorting to IPA)
Because the vowels remain constant (more or less) in Japanese pronunciation, Japanese dialects do things other than vary the vowel in a given word. Dekinai/Dekimasen (polite) is the Tokyo/ Standard version, of 'can't', but down here in the Kansai area people say 'Dekihen' The vowels are standard, the form is pure Osaka.
Vowels in English are as slippery as a greasy piglet pulled through a pipe.

People from Boston pronounce can't just like ant, is that what you mean? "Caent" reads to me like a southern drawl. Like cayant. :)
Southern drawls sound as awkward to me as British accents. There are different southern accents too of course. "Ah thank that'll buh graite" (I think that'll be great :lol: )
For me it's "pahk the cah in harvuhd yahd".
Another southern one that makes me holla :naughty2: Hwhayull, that hwhouldn't buh nass for the state of tayuxis" (well, that wouldn't be nice for the state of Texas.)

Who are Geordies?


North Eastern English people.

I heard Boston pronunciations first in MASH. I wasn't aware of how many different ways there were of pronouncing simple words in the US, before then.

Texas accents I understand because of more than a decade of Dallas (the first series).
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#35  Postby Agrippina » Dec 08, 2013 1:57 pm

don't get me started wrote:Yeah, it's difficult to render the nuances of accent and pronunciation using just regular alphabet conventions...

Geordies are people from the Newcastle area of North-east England. They have a very very distinctive accent and dialect...
Apparently it is one of the most trusted accents in the UK and much sought after by call centers, or so I've heard.
" Diven't say nowt, will ye not, yeh'll get wrong from yuh fatha, like." (Don't say anything, or your dad will be angry.)


See, English that I have to have explained to me, like it's a foreign language. :grin:
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#36  Postby The_Piper » Dec 08, 2013 2:10 pm

Agrippina wrote:
don't get me started wrote:Yeah, it's difficult to render the nuances of accent and pronunciation using just regular alphabet conventions...

Geordies are people from the Newcastle area of North-east England. They have a very very distinctive accent and dialect...
Apparently it is one of the most trusted accents in the UK and much sought after by call centers, or so I've heard.
" Diven't say nowt, will ye not, yeh'll get wrong from yuh fatha, like." (Don't say anything, or your dad will be angry.)


See, English that I have to have explained to me, like it's a foreign language. :grin:

Wow that's like Shakespeare. We should have a hate thread about that instead. :tongue:
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#37  Postby The_Piper » Dec 08, 2013 2:24 pm

JVRaines wrote:
The_Piper wrote:I hear the uptalk, but I don't think I notice the creak. I need more examples.

The fry is low in volume and pitch, so it's not as noticeable as uptalk. But it comes off as irritatingly bored and dismissive. Here's a parody to make it quite clear.


Ok, that one's almost tooobvious. The vocal fry in these few examples seems like an addition to the uptalk. Does this trend exist on it's own nowadays, without uptalk style of speech?
The example of the actress from the old movie was one (on the podcast), but she was just talking like Humphrey Bogart. That was annoying. :tongue:

In life, I notice the uptalk, very much. It doesn't really aggravate me, I'm pretty tolerant of that stuff I suppose. :dopey: (i poke fun at all kinds of accents and inflections, as "y'all" probably noticed now. )(<<<< parenthesis posted in the low voice of uptalk. Or is that a different animal...when people speak the first few sentences of an idea loudly and clearly, then trail off speaking faster and lower in tone and quieter with the rest of it, the details. That annoys me, because I can't hear what they're saying at the end.)
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#38  Postby JVRaines » Dec 09, 2013 4:38 am

The_Piper wrote:Record has 2 pronunciations of course, it is a noun and verb. "That point just broke the record."
"You're a really good musician, you should record some of you stuff."
Do some British people use the verb pronunciation for the noun too?
Or are you talking about American pronunciations where the r is somewhat silent? That would be rekkud for me, not rekkiid.
Saying it out loud it sounds like rekkid anyway I guess. :lol:

Rekkid is primarily an East Coast pronunciation with a vanished "r." Elsewhere it has the schwa-r combination in the second syllable. The primary difference between American and British pronunciation of this syllable (in the noun form) is a short schwa in the former versus a longer "o" variant in the latter. You might call the American rendition trochaic and the British, spondaic.
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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#39  Postby quas » Dec 27, 2013 7:43 am

Kim Kardashian generally speaks in the uptalk, punctuated with vocal fry. Her voice is lower pitched, so the uptalk isn't as obvious/obnoxious.

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Re: More men speaking in girls' 'dialect', study shows

#40  Postby surreptitious57 » Dec 27, 2013 8:10 am

I am from Birmingham and speak the Queens English

So sound absolutely nothing like its most famous son

I quite like the Australian accent and the Irish one too

The latter of which I think is just so unbelievably sexy

Ani might disagree but he would be wrong if he did

[ not saying he is sexy because he is not well not to me anyway ]
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