Spoken languages [split from pro-life...]

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Spoken languages [split from pro-life...]

#1  Postby Warren Dew » Mar 18, 2012 7:40 pm


!
GENERAL MODNOTE
This has been split from the thread: Pro-life does not mean anti-woman. Please keep on topic. Darkchilde


Globe wrote:Not because they are stupid, but because Danish is a seriously difficult language to decipher when spoken.

We don't have "stops" between the words as most other languages have.
Basicallywespeakentiresentencesasonelongword. Thenwetakeashortstopbeforestartingthenextsentence.

English is spoken the same way. Danish may be more difficult, but that would not be the reason why.

Alternatively, it's also possible that Danish culture focuses the children on other things early on.
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#2  Postby Globe » Mar 18, 2012 7:59 pm

Warren Dew wrote:
Globe wrote:Not because they are stupid, but because Danish is a seriously difficult language to decipher when spoken.

We don't have "stops" between the words as most other languages have.
Basicallywespeakentiresentencesasonelongword. Thenwetakeashortstopbeforestartingthenextsentence.

English is spoken the same way. Danish may be more difficult, but that would not be the reason why.

Alternatively, it's also possible that Danish culture focuses the children on other things early on.

No it isn't.
Seriously it ISN'T.

There is no comparison what so ever in the way English and Danish is spoken.
Years and years of studies by scientists have gone into figuring out why Danish children start speaking so late.
The sheer complexity IS the reason.

I grew up speaking Danish AND English.

English:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCJQkZah7WE[/youtube]

Danish: (And these people are trained in speaking clearly and with lots of stops)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2C6s5w-PbU[/youtube]
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#3  Postby Nostalgia » Mar 18, 2012 8:09 pm

Christiansborg?

Have the Borg converted? :shock:
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#4  Postby Globe » Mar 18, 2012 10:03 pm

MacIver wrote:Christiansborg?

Have the Borg converted? :shock:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItHcsIHshhs[/youtube]
:mrgreen:

Named after the King that built it. Christian number something. :dunno:
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#5  Postby Fallible » Mar 19, 2012 9:52 am

Growing up surrounded by Vicky Pollards makes me wonder whether Bristolians are Danish.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxifmyYcOws[/youtube]
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#6  Postby Globe » Mar 19, 2012 12:07 pm

:rofl:

Although HE is just talking really fast. Danes don't do that actually. They just pull one word into the next so you can't really hear when one word stop and the next begins. :smug:
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#7  Postby Warren Dew » Mar 19, 2012 4:22 pm

Globe wrote:Although HE is just talking really fast. Danes don't do that actually. They just pull one word into the next so you can't really hear when one word stop and the next begins. :smug:

You can't hear it in native speakers of English, either. Word breaks sound exactly like syllable breaks within words.
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#8  Postby Globe » Mar 19, 2012 4:28 pm

Warren Dew wrote:
Globe wrote:Although HE is just talking really fast. Danes don't do that actually. They just pull one word into the next so you can't really hear when one word stop and the next begins. :smug:

You can't hear it in native speakers of English, either. Word breaks sound exactly like syllable breaks within words.

Do you speak Danish?
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#9  Postby Warren Dew » Mar 19, 2012 4:43 pm

I don't need to speak Danish to know how natively spoken English works. As I said from the beginning, there may be other aspects of Danish that make it more difficult to learn than English. However, word breaks sounding different from syllable breaks is not one of them.
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#10  Postby Globe » Mar 19, 2012 4:47 pm

Warren Dew wrote:I don't need to speak Danish to know how natively spoken English works. As I said from the beginning, there may be other aspects of Danish that make it more difficult to learn than English. However, word breaks sounding different from syllable breaks is not one of them.

So... even though you DON'T speak Danish, and I have the advantage of having grown up with both languages AND have years of studies made by professionals and their conclusions, behind me you tell me I am wrong. :coffee:

Btw.... consonants are barely audible in Danish. As a matter of fact if you write the language as it is spoken it's possible to write entire sentences without the use of one single consonant. ;)
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#11  Postby Warren Dew » Mar 19, 2012 4:59 pm

Globe wrote:So... even though you DON'T speak Danish, and I have the advantage of having grown up with both languages AND have years of studies made by professionals and their conclusions, behind me you tell me I am wrong. :coffee:

I tell you you are wrong about English, yes. My statements about English are backed up by discussions with linguists who have spent careers on this sort of thing - and also by being a native speaker of Chinese as well as English, and thus knowing a language where word divisions actually do work differently and are generally more clear.

Also, I live in the U.S. where I'm constantly surrounded by native speakers of English. Even extremely skilled nonnative speakers sound different from native speakers; some native French speakers I've known have English that sounds more clear than that of native English speakers, for example, perhaps because they do make word division distinctions that native speakers do not.

Btw.... consonants are barely audible in Danish. As a matter of fact if you write the language as it is spoken it's possible to write entire sentences without the use of one single consonant. ;)

Inaudible consonants could definitely be a difference that makes Danish more difficult to learn.
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#12  Postby Globe » Mar 19, 2012 5:16 pm

Warren Dew wrote:
Globe wrote:So... even though you DON'T speak Danish, and I have the advantage of having grown up with both languages AND have years of studies made by professionals and their conclusions, behind me you tell me I am wrong. :coffee:

I tell you you are wrong about English, yes. My statements about English are backed up by discussions with linguists who have spent careers on this sort of thing - and also by being a native speaker of Chinese as well as English, and thus knowing a language where word divisions actually do work differently and are generally more clear.

Also, I live in the U.S. where I'm constantly surrounded by native speakers of English. Even extremely skilled nonnative speakers sound different from native speakers; some native French speakers I've known have English that sounds more clear than that of native English speakers, for example, perhaps because they do make word division distinctions that native speakers do not.

And I tell you that being used to Danish... English is a walk in the park. 8-)
FFS... I speak 3 different English dialects, and pick up a new one (and forget it again :shifty: ) if I spend more than 10-15 minutes with someone speaking that dialect.
First of all.... you have fewer different sounds in the language. That's a plus. Second... you don't have words with triple or even quadruple meaning depending on pronunciation and placement in the sentence. Thirdly... in English, no matter how slurred the speech, you don't snip the words quite as severely as in Danish. In some cases leaving them completely out of the sentences spoken, except for maybe a tiny lilt at the end of the preceding word or in the beginning of the following word.

Btw.... consonants are barely audible in Danish. As a matter of fact if you write the language as it is spoken it's possible to write entire sentences without the use of one single consonant. ;)

Inaudible consonants could definitely be a difference that makes Danish more difficult to learn.

A æ å e ø i e å æ a, o a a e å å me sie.
^^^
That is actually a legitimate and quite decipherable sentence. IF you speak Danish and know what the subject is. :what:

http://www.cphpost.dk/culture/quotdansk ... l-syndrome
“‘Y’ isn’t a vowel,” you say? Well, in Danish it is. In Danish, even consonants are vowels.

But written Danish is not the issue. The problems start when Danes speak. In spoken speech, Danish actually has some 40 vowel sounds, says Bleses, depending upon where the vowels are placed in words and sentence strings.

To make matters worse, modern Danes ‘swallow’ lots of the remaining consonants that would create more audible definition, or annunciation, between words. Linguists call it ‘reduction’ or ‘ellision’. It is how ‘probably’ becomes ‘probly’ in American English. In Danish, it is how ‘spændende’becomes ‘spen-nă’, and how a simple, little sentence like 'Det er det' becomes ‘dā-ă-dā’.
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#13  Postby Fallible » Mar 19, 2012 9:38 pm

What do you mean you speak 3 different English dialects? You do actually often make mistakes in your written English, Globe, so it's not that much of a walk in the park for you. This is getting way off-topic now.
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#14  Postby Globe » Mar 19, 2012 10:20 pm

Fallible wrote:What do you mean you speak 3 different English dialects? You do actually often make mistakes in your written English, Globe, so it's not that much of a walk in the park for you. This is getting way off-topic now.

When I am here I am OFF DUTY.
Not going to sit and proofread myself in every little post. (you should see the informally written Danish I produce :shifty: )
I bet you don't bring YOUR job home with you.
Here I write for fun, and that quite fast. Not with the purpose of linguistic precision. :coffee:
If you would please notice that I never make any spelling mistakes, as in contrast to a lot of the "English speaking" here.

This is a social media... not an exam and certainly not a paid job, so don't expect me to meet my own standards of quality when posting here. It's a break and a relief from always having to be so fucking correct.
:coffee:

Besides.... who gives a shit if I switch a few words around. It's not like you are going to publish it to the wider world or something.
At least I hope not. :lol:
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#15  Postby Fallible » Mar 19, 2012 11:31 pm

You didn't answer my question about dialects. It doesn't make much sense as it stands. What do you mean you speak 3 different dialects?

It has nothing to do with you bringing your work home. Since you claimed English is 'a walk in the park' for you, it's odd to see you make the mistakes you do. They are very clearly (to a native speaker) ones which non-native English speakers make. They're not the mistakes which native English speakers make when they are being lazy (eg. you use 'have' when you mean 'has' pretty much every time that I've seen - native speakers make many mistakes, but that's not usually one of them). Maybe your English is not as good as you think it is - could it be that perhaps you overrate your abilities slightly? I mean it's simply not true that you never make spelling mistakes, I'm sorry to say. This isn't meant to be an attack on you, your English is very good, but if you're going to use your superior English language skills in your arguments and claim it's 'a walk in the park', you probably should exhibit near-perfect abilities in that depratment.
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#16  Postby Agrippina » Mar 20, 2012 6:05 am

While we're on the topic of the English language. Most native-English speakers don't drawl or slur their words into each other. Native English, or rather the way I and my family speak English, is "clipped" i.e. the words are differentiated and properly pronounced. OK back on topic now.
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#17  Postby Globe » Mar 20, 2012 6:39 am

Fallible wrote:You didn't answer my question about dialects. It doesn't make much sense as it stands. What do you mean you speak 3 different dialects?

Queens English (You know... the posh Oxford English), West coast American and Midwest American.
It's all about pronunciation, just like music. :dunno:
I speak 5 Danish dialects as well, if that sets your mind at ease. :grin:

It has nothing to do with you bringing your work home. Since you claimed English is 'a walk in the park' for you, it's odd to see you make the mistakes you do. They are very clearly (to a native speaker) ones which non-native English speakers make. They're not the mistakes which native English speakers make when they are being lazy (eg. you use 'have' when you mean 'has' pretty much every time that I've seen - native speakers make many mistakes, but that's not usually one of them). Maybe your English is not as good as you think it is - could it be that perhaps you overrate your abilities slightly? I mean it's simply not true that you never make spelling mistakes, I'm sorry to say. This isn't meant to be an attack on you, your English is very good, but if you're going to use your superior English language skills in your arguments and claim it's 'a walk in the park', you probably should exhibit near-perfect abilities in that depratment.

Let me ask you.... how many other languages, besides English, do you speak?
Because the more languages you speak, the bigger the chance of "confusion", and slacking off, when not formal, is.
Personally I am working on my 8th language at the moment. Flemish-Dutch. (Scored a 70% in spelling +4 syllable words in a recent, formal, test, and I never took a formal class. That's pretty fucking awesome after only 4 months. :smug: )

And who gives a shit if I use "Has" or "Have" when it's informal? I prefer "Has", just as I prefer to use the Danish "Den" rather than "Det". Something that would give any teacher an apoplectic fit, and something I would never do if working for a customer.
As long as I use it correctly when I work.... that's all that matters. :dunno:
I don't bring my work "home" with me, and it's grammatical mistakes. Danish being my first language (English didn't arrive till I was about 3-4), I am not all that hung up on grammar, as Danish doesn't really have any worth mentioning.

English IS a walk in the park. I have spoken it since I was a toddler, and compared to German, French and Dutch, English is a language for "simpletons". At least it doesn't have any strange sounds, most of it is straight forward and doesn't involved "front to back" sentence constructions, it doesn't involve extensive use of prefixes, and the grammar is pretty straight forward as well.
Besides... I don't really give a shit about you opinion.
I have customers... ENGLISH customers... who keep returning to me, paying my rather steep prices, to fix translations English born and bred translators got wrong. Their opinion about my PROFESSIONAL work and conduct is all that matters. :coffee:
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#18  Postby Agrippina » Mar 20, 2012 8:56 am

I didn't realise that people thought of English having "dialects" because it is pretty much becoming the means of communication of the whole world. If you speak English, you can communicate with almost every society on earth in some way, I've never thought of it as "dialects" merely as different ways of expression. But I do see what you're saying Globe about "dialects" would the way that New Zealanders pronounce the short vowel "in" as in window, be considered their dialectic pronunciation. We say "window" as in "pin" "sin" "bin" New Zealanders say "werndow" as in "fern" so which is the correct one, the short "i" sound or the "er" sound? And would you call it a dialectic sound?
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#19  Postby Fallible » Mar 20, 2012 9:21 am

:shock: Moving on...
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Re: Pro-life doesn't mean anti-woman

#20  Postby Globe » Mar 20, 2012 9:47 am

Agrippina wrote:I didn't realise that people thought of English having "dialects" because it is pretty much becoming the means of communication of the whole world. If you speak English, you can communicate with almost every society on earth in some way, I've never thought of it as "dialects" merely as different ways of expression. But I do see what you're saying Globe about "dialects" would the way that New Zealanders pronounce the short vowel "in" as in window, be considered their dialectic pronunciation. We say "window" as in "pin" "sin" "bin" New Zealanders say "werndow" as in "fern" so which is the correct one, the short "i" sound or the "er" sound? And would you call it a dialectic sound?

Highly dialectic. Yes.
That is, in principle, what defines dialects. And the use of words either not commonly used in other dialects, or completely absent from them.
As an example.
The Eastern Scottish/Gaelic word for "Church" is "Kirk". In the dialect I grew up in they use "Kerk" but pronounced the same as in Eastern Scotland. No other Danish dialect use that specific word in that specific way.
High Dane uses "Kirke" pronounced with two distinct stops "kIr-Ke" unlike the softer "Kirk/Kerk" which is a monosyllable word without stops.
Another example is the East Scottish/Gaelic word "Bairn" which means "Child" (also widely used in the northern most part of England).
In my dialect that exact same word is used in the exact same way, whereas most other Danish dialect and High Dane is using "Barn" without it "i" sound included.
And not a cat would understand the word "Bairn" used outside a very limited area in the north western part of Denmark.
Just 30 km north of where I grew up they use a word not used anywhere else. "Lihme", which mean "Broom". In all other dialects and High Dane "Broom" is called "Kost".
In the area where I have my house, Frisian is still used. North Frisian, unlike the South/Western Frisian used in Dutch-Friesien (Holland) and the western part of coastal North Germany.

Fries:
Göljn as e hamel di samereen,
Göljn as dåt eekerfälj,
Än göljn as dåt häär foon min Anemaleen;
Wat san we duch rik heer foon gölj.

Danish:
Gylden er sommeraftenens himmel,
Gylden er ageren,
Og gylden er min Anne Marlenes hår;
Hvor er vi dog rige på guld her.

English
Golden is the evening sky
Golden is the field
And golden is my Anemaleen's hair
We are rich in gold in these parts

:crazy:

Dialects are a big thing in little Denmark.
Tiny country, 32 distinct dialects and their sub-groups. :grin:
Some dialects can only be understood and spoken if you grew up with them. Some, like the dialect where I grew up, is pure gibberish to the people where I have my house in Denmark (300 km apart), and vice versa.
They are fading though, and being replaced by "High Dane". Although some municipalities choose to teach the local dialect as "1st. language" in the schools.

It's a real mess though. You can travel 20 km and find yourself among people who speak something that sounds like a completely different language.
I remember, with horror, being introduced to the really old generation of my family when I was a child. All living on the small islands in the Wadden Sea. They spoke pure Fries, and I lived 300 km to the north, growing up with a dialect that was generously sprinkled with Gaelic. :rofl:
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