Story in our local paper about spelling...

...Professor says it just isn't important anymore...

Discuss various aspects of natural language.

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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#21  Postby Beatsong » Jun 18, 2012 11:44 pm

Duplicate.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#22  Postby Wiðercora » Jun 18, 2012 11:47 pm

Well I basically agree with John, but from a Devil's advocate POV one could point out that English spelling was highly unstandardised until a few hundred years ago, and people seemed to get on OK and read each other nonetheless.


But not everyone has always been able to read and write.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#23  Postby Kazaman » Jun 18, 2012 11:55 pm

I'm fluent in chat speak from my preteen years, but I wouldn't be caught dead using it now. It gives me an icky feeling.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#24  Postby devogue » Jun 19, 2012 1:18 am

I blame Prince.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#25  Postby SkyMutt » Jun 19, 2012 1:41 am

orpheus wrote:Did I miss it? It doesn't seem to say what Cowling's area of expertise is.


From the site of Central Queensland University (a little over halfway down the page):

Dr Michael A. Cowling is an information technologist with a keen interest in educational technology and technology ubiquity in the digital age. He is currently an Adjunct Research Fellow of the International Education Research Centre and Programs Manager for the CQUniversity Metropolitan campuses and has worked for CQUniversity for over eight years.

Dr Cowling’s PhD research focussed on the use of information technology as a tool for non-speech sound recognition, and he is internationally published in this area, but for the last decade he has focussed primarily on the use of technology in the classroom. Dr Cowling is the recipient of 2 Learning and Teaching grants related to teaching technology and was a 2007 recipient of the CQUniversity Award for Excellence in Learning & Teaching (International Campuses). He is actively researching in the area of educational technology and technology ubiquity and has conducted numerous radio and print media interviews on the topic. He is also a member of the Technology Innovations in Learning & Teaching (TILT) Committee at CQUniversity and has written oped articles for Education Review and Campus Review on how technology will change the classroom.

Dr Cowling is currently investigating the use of social networking as a tool to improve participation in the classroom. He has also begun to investigate the importance of technology competency amongst university academics and high school teachers. Previously, Dr Cowling has also performed research looking at the relationship between student engagement, attendance and participation; and the use of semester-long computerised case study machinima as a mechanism to teach technical accounting courses.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#26  Postby orpheus » Jun 19, 2012 1:47 am

Hmmm...

"Dr Michael A. Cowling S an info technologist W a keen intrst n educational teknoloG n teknoloG ubiquity n teh digital age. hes curNtly an Adjunct rsrch Fellow of te intl Education rsrch centA n progs boss 4t CQUniversity metro campuses n hs wrkD 4 CQUniversity 4 ovr 8 yrs."




Edit: thanks, SkyMutt, for checking that out.
Last edited by orpheus on Jun 19, 2012 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#27  Postby Kazaman » Jun 19, 2012 1:50 am

orpheus wrote:Hmmm...

"Dr Michael A. Cowling S an info technologist W a keen intrst n educational teknoloG n teknoloG ubiquity n teh digital age. hes curNtly an Adjunct rsrch Fellow of te intl Education rsrch centA n progs boss 4t CQUniversity metro campuses n hs wrkD 4 CQUniversity 4 ovr 8 yrs."


Ah, thank you! I had trouble reading that formal book-learnin' language.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#28  Postby Hermit » Jun 19, 2012 1:52 am

johnbrandt wrote: The readers comment I do like was a reply to the one making the deliberate spelling errors:
Without correct spelling, it isn't literacy, it really is that simple. With how you've written your last few posts phonetically, it shows that you actually do know the correct spellings, and you are choosing not to use them. If you understood the thread context here, you would also have noticed that what I wrote, was not a reply to you, rather a comment on the original story. I'm also a bit baffled at your view that literacy is more important that correct spelling, to remove spelling you would, in effect, be lowering the standards to literacy to suit those who do not meet the criteria, rather than making a positive improvement on the teaching standards.
What about grammar? :whistle:

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A Plan for the Improvement of English Spelling
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For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.

Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.

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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#29  Postby orpheus » Jun 19, 2012 1:56 am

Will S. on a hot streak wrote:
Meantime we shall express our darker purpose.—
Give me the map there.—Know that we have divided
In three our kingdom, and ’tis our fast intent
To shake all cares and business from our age,
Conferring them on younger strengths while we
Unburdened crawl toward death.

-King Lear, I:1


No-Fear Shakespeare wrote:
In the meantime I’ll get down to my real business.—Hand me that map over there.—I hereby announce that I’ve divided my kingdom into three parts, which I’m handing over to the younger generation so I can enjoy a little rest and peace of mind in my old age.

http://nfs.sparknotes.com/lear/page_4.html
Last edited by orpheus on Jun 19, 2012 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#30  Postby orpheus » Jun 19, 2012 1:58 am

Hermit wrote:
*utter brilliance that - damn you - upstaged my Shakespeare example*


:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#31  Postby Witticism » Jun 19, 2012 4:02 am

CookieJon wrote:
johnbrandt wrote: These kids can tell themselves...presumably with this idiots blessing...

Or, in the professors words:

...and so-on


B+

Must do better.

And of course Professor Cowling is forgetting Suz's Law (I've named it in honour of Mrs W :naughty2: )

that states that 4 evry bahd speeler on teh interwebs der iz a Grammar or Spelling Nazi waiting to correct them.

The internet it seems is self-correct[ing].

Also, as long as there are public servants ... there will be 'style guides' and there will be middle managers who need to justify their existence by fixing their udderling's grammar and spelling :lol: (Also true in many large corporations).

Oh and besides which, didn't some famous dude 200 yrs ago state by the start pf the 20th century that America English and English English would be so completely different that the Brits and Yanks wouldn;t be able to talk to each other.

*Also I heard that some teachers are usuing technology such as auto-correct functions on phones to actually help children to spell correctly.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#32  Postby Microfarad » Jun 19, 2012 2:07 pm

This language is horrendous, also in Italian.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#33  Postby Pulsar » Jun 19, 2012 2:22 pm

orpheus wrote:Did I miss it? It doesn't seem to say what Cowling's area of expertise is.

http://content.cqu.edu.au/FCWViewer/staff.do;jsessionid=a5ce214f9e8845c5f8530edb1d6021952c8951b2e26470860cd99e2756db0952.e3eKaNaTbx8Le34Sb3uLaxqSby1ynknvrkLOlQzNp65In0?site=1829&sid=COWLINAM

Michael attended Griffith University for 8 years, earning a Bachelor of IT (Hons) degree in 2000, a PhD (Information Technology) in 2003 and a Graduate Certificate in Higher Education in 2004. He completed his MBA from USQ in 2008. Michael taught at Griffith University for four years before joining CQU Gold Coast in November, 2003. He was made a full-time staff academic in July, 2005 and became an Adjunct Senior Lecturer in Dec, 2005. Concurrent with this appointment, Michael served as Program Facilitator at Sydney campus from July, 2006, and was a Senior Lecturer on that campus from November, 2007 until July, 2008. Currently, Michael lectures Business and IT courses at CQU Gold Coast campus.

Michael's areas of academic interest include Information Systems, Higher Education (Teaching & Learning) and Organisational Behaviour. Michael is well published in journals and has attended conferences of international standing in the areas of "environmental sound recognition" and "improving teaching in high-level accounting".
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#34  Postby mindhack » Jun 19, 2012 2:48 pm

One of the reasons I'm here participating on this forum is to learn the English language as well as I can.

Using my own language I'm quick to feel disdain for people who are sloppy. It's my understanding that language works, sort of, as a social contract with which we produce sounds and letter-combo's to transfer established meanings and feelings. If someone doesn't show interest in communicating clearly, by using all kinds of combo's I have to decipher first, I take it as some kind of arrogance or a lack of intellect.

Language bears plenty of shortcomings in itself, but when people make sloppy mistakes, or even worse, consequently neglect proper language, I cannot help but feel they're not really interested in communicating. My time to spend with them might be short as a result, as is my patience.

My two cents
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#35  Postby katja z » Jun 19, 2012 3:16 pm

mindhack wrote:
Using my own language I'm quick to feel disdain for people who are sloppy. It's my understanding that language works, sort of, as a social contract with which we produce sounds and letter-combo's to transfer established meanings and feelings. If someone doesn't show interest in communicating clearly, by using all kinds of combo's I have to decipher first, I take it as some kind of arrogance or a lack of intellect.


But textspeak by itself isn't a mark of a lack of interest in communication; it's an alternative code that emerged within a more restricted community, and within that context, where all share it, it works just as well as standard English forms work for us in this thread. Problems arise only where this code is applied inappropriately, in communication contexts that require a more formal language register, and/or where the producer and receiver don't share the code.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#36  Postby The_Metatron » Jun 19, 2012 3:24 pm

mindhack wrote:One of the reasons I'm here participating on this forum is to learn the English language as well as I can.

Using my own language I'm quick to feel disdain for people who are sloppy. It's my understanding that language works, sort of, as a social contract with which we produce sounds and letter-combo's to transfer established meanings and feelings. If someone doesn't show interest in communicating clearly, by using all kinds of combo's I have to decipher first, I take it as some kind of arrogance or a lack of intellect.

Language bears plenty of shortcomings in itself, but when people make sloppy mistakes, or even worse, consequently neglect proper language, I cannot help but feel they're not really interested in communicating. My time to spend with them might be short as a result, as is my patience.

My two cents

That's a fine two cents, and I agree with it. I'm not merely fucking with you here when I point out that you typically don't use the apostrophe-s form unless you are indicating the possessive (combo's vs combos). Your English is far better than my Dutch, I can tell you.

I consider willfully poor grammar and spelling to be inconsiderate to the reader. I am far less likely to attend to anything poorly written regardless of the point, if the composition is not commensurate with the subject.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#37  Postby johnbrandt » Jun 20, 2012 12:24 am

The_Metatron wrote:
I consider willfully poor grammar and spelling to be inconsiderate to the reader. I am far less likely to attend to anything poorly written regardless of the point, if the composition is not commensurate with the subject.


I think that would be most normal peoples reaction to reading something full of (deliberate) spelling errors...
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#38  Postby Witticism » Jun 20, 2012 1:48 am

johnbrandt wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
I consider willfully poor grammar and spelling to be inconsiderate to the reader. I am far less likely to attend to anything poorly written regardless of the point, if the composition is not commensurate with the subject.


I think that would be most normal peoples reaction to reading something full of (deliberate) spelling errors...

Which is common on Facebook.

(My profile is private and I'm only interested in sharing with close friends) But I do subscribe to a few bloggers / activists etc. on FB and the comments thread on some of the pictures that are posted are chock full of seemingly illiterate people.

Their spelling is atrocious - it is as if some of them are deliberately turning off their auto-spell checkers! Though it is mildly amusing to see people spouting their ignorance and intolerance of an issue whilst simultaneously displaying their ignorance of proper English.

I’m not the world’s best ‘speller’, so I always endeavour to proof read my posts or at least run a spell-checker over them.

(Though I am not perfect and have been none to post the odd error … alas I am hoomin)
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#39  Postby Huxley » Jun 20, 2012 2:14 pm

The use of 'da' instead of 'the' makes me want to throw things.
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Re: Story in our local paper about spelling...

#40  Postby orpheus » Jun 20, 2012 4:06 pm

Huxley wrote:The use of 'da' instead of 'the' makes me want to throw things.


Hmm; I haven't seen that one much. I did once have an auto-correct change "the" to "teh". Rather shocking (and pretty funny).

on the other hand, i have been known to type text devoid of capital letters, because my cat has a habit of lying down next to me, grabbing one hand, and falling asleep, thus forcing me to type with one finger. and one disturbs a sleeping cat at one's peril.
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