Oachkatzlschwoaf.

Kunstschrift (name of a Dutch art magazine)

To hear what it sounds like go to

https://translate.google.com/#nl/af/kunst%2Cschrift

and click the speaker icon

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scheveningen

According to legend that one was used to identify German spies in WW2:

Wikipedia wrote: There is anecdotal evidence of the name Scheveningen being used as a shibboleth during World War II to identify German spies: they would pronounce the initial "Sch" differently from Dutch native speakers.

You'd think a spy good enough to pass for someone from the Netherlands would know to pronounce it like the Dutch s-ch instead of the German sch, which - incidentially can also be heard in the Oachkatzlschwoaf sound sample above.

Observation, not intended as antagonism: most of these aren't exactly words that foreigners CAN'T pronounce correctly.

Some require the generation of sounds or phonemes that are not in the lexicon of the non-native speaker.

Others are unlikely to be pronounced correctly if the speaker is trying to read them out, without hearing a native say them first.

My favorites along these lines, are words with what might be called "idiomatic pronunciations." That is, words which one just has to learn through living in the local dialects, how to say out loud, in spite of the fact that there aren't even any hints in the printed version as to how to say them. Words with silent letters come to mind first, but I have seen a few words (none of which I can recall now) whose printed spelling bear no relation at all to their pronunciation.

Here in the US, we have so many sources of culture and thus pronunciation, that one can go from one neighborhood to another, say the same words the same way in each neighborhood, and be told that they are saying them correctly in one area, and incorrectly in the other.

"Houston" is a case of that. Some areas pronounce that city name as "Hew-stun," while some others say "Yew-stun."

One of the things I liked about German, so far as I managed to learn it, is that I never came across a German sourced word which was not spelled in print, based on how it was to be said out loud. One had to learn the correct phonemes to attach to each set of letters, but that's almost entirely just discipline.

Last minor note: one small but interesting thing about word pronunciation, is that there are pockets of people here and there who have all inherited genetic "quirks" of a certain small kind, which affect how they are ABLE to say things. It seems that at least some aspects of accents, actually derived from these physiological originations, rather than from the intermingling of cultures alone.

A possible example of this, are the people who are unable to say the letter R, without including a bit of the pronunciation of the letter W as well. I am aware that there is an area in London where this WR sound is very common, but I have also found the occasional American, NOT of English descent, who was born with this as an officially recognized speech impediment, which no amount of therapy or practice can reverse.

All lots of fun, really.

Oh, and let's not forget the people (again, especially here in America) who INSIST on mispronouncing non-American words, for political reasons.

Mazille wrote:You'd think a spy good enough to pass for someone from the Netherlands would know to pronounce it like the Dutch s-ch instead of the German sch

Knowing how it should be pronounced doesn't mean someone can actually pronounce it. I know from experience that many Germans do have a lot of trouble pronouncing Schevingen.

The archaic form of Den Haag (The Hague, another city ), 's-Gravenhage is even more troublesome courtesey of the r following the s-G (which by itself is pronounced just like Sch in Scheveningen). Even if they manage to get the s-Gr combination right in principle it still won't sound right to a native speaker, no matter how hard they try.

Papa Smurf wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Scheveningen

According to legend that one was used to identify German spies in WW2:

Wikipedia wrote: There is anecdotal evidence of the name Scheveningen being used as a shibboleth during World War II to identify German spies: they would pronounce the initial "Sch" differently from Dutch native speakers.

A similar tale is being told about 'schild ende vriend' during the uprising against the french (brugse metten)
Non-native speakers tend to pronounce the sch as sk, which actually cost them their lives.

Anyway. When I hear how fast spanish people talk, I can hardly keep up listening, let alone speaking it myself.

and as for not being able to produce the sounds needed: what about the clicking sounds in the khoisan languages?

igorfrankensteen wrote:Oh, and let's not forget the people (again, especially here in America) who INSIST on mispronouncing non-American words, for political reasons.

Also: what's with the above? Sounds stupid and probably is. Could you provide an example? (the stupid is not yours, igor)

Papa Smurf wrote:

Mazille wrote:You'd think a spy good enough to pass for someone from the Netherlands would know to pronounce it like the Dutch s-ch instead of the German sch

Knowing how it should be pronounced doesn't mean someone can actually pronounce it. I know from experience that many Germans do have a lot of trouble pronouncing Schevingen.

The archaic form of Den Haag (The Hague, another city ), 's-Gravenhage is even more troublesome courtesey of the r following the s-G (which by itself is pronounced just like Sch in Scheveningen). Even if they manage to get the s-Gr combination right in principle it still won't sound right to a native speaker, no matter how hard they try.

Yep. A bugger to learn. The Sch in Scheveningen is a bugger but after about a year it does klick. I worked with a German colleague in a office in Scheveningen. He could never get it. The same goes for leeuwen, meeuwen and trouwen. very difficult sounds to make for the English mouth.

's-Gravenhage = The Count's Hedges. What I fond more difficult was ''s-Hertogenbosch = The Dukes Woods.

Welsh is a wonder even to the Welsh.