I wanted people who are of a critical nature and have understand of biology to help me. I have search through google scholar reading up on anabolic steroid use in how it improves performance, adverse side effects etc.....

I know someone is taking them orally (apparently can cause liver damage) and he has a girlfriend and children. So I am pretty worried about the damage the steriods can do to the body (inlcuding mental capacity). I have seen on body building sites that they say the side effects are over hyped and no journal can claim its causes damage, mood swings etc.... To me it seems there is a bias of interest.

Can anyone comment?

I've been using them for some years now and I can honestly say that there is NOTHING wrong with them at ALL!!!

THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS!1!!!! NONE!!!! AND ANYONE WHO SAYS THERE ARE, I WILL PERSONALLY KILL WITH MY. OWN. TWO. HANDS!!!!!!!

I hope that's of help. Good day, sir.

Nicko wrote:I've been using them for some years now and I can honestly say that there is NOTHING wrong with them at ALL!!!

THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS!1!!!! NONE!!!! AND ANYONE WHO SAYS THERE ARE, I WILL PERSONALLY KILL WITH MY. OWN. TWO. HANDS!!!!!!!

I hope that's of help. Good day, sir.

Message is very clear.

They make your balls shrink!!

Ha well seriously, they make your balls shrink.

Ok ok ok, well it depends on what they take and their cycling schedule. I don't know much about steroids but my experience comes from my encounters with people in the MMA scene, as steroid use is pretty high among that demographic. I know fighters who use it and are fine. They have a strict schedule and if they follow it, the risks are very minimal. One thing I've noticed though it guys who used anabolics when younger are now using TRT due to low testosterone in their late 20s on when their testosterone levels should not be dropping that low yet. There hasn't been any research done and that's just observation from myself and others I know so that is not a verifiable fact. I would like to see a study following testosterone levels of men throughout their lifetimes to see if what I am seeing is real or imagined.

If your buddy is abusing them, then he can really mess himself up. My guess is that if he's getting them from someone, he was instructed on how to take them and cycle them. I would caution him that taking pills that alter endocrine activity will have unintended side effects and if he feels off in any way, he should stop immediately (I have known of people dying from steroid related complications during grappling competitions) but I don't think you should worry too much.


Oh ya, and it makes your balls shrink.

I don't know if they make em shrink or not.

When I get home and off this phone I can help you, from personal experience. But to keep you going for now, your friend is going to be fine, liver damage is somewhat overrated, inasmuch as drinking booze is hurting your own liver. It isn't, until you consistently over do it. Body builders do use liver protection, however.
See you later.

the testes can shrink because of the hormonal feedback loop, forget the term atm. When you add synthetic testosterone the testicles want to sit down production, they shrink in size because of this. Body builders use some thing called human chorionic gonadtropin (dried ladies wee wee) to stimulate the body's production of male hormone, they will especially use this when ending a 'cycle' but these days the drug is used throughout. It prevents hypertrophy.
Not ball shrinkage, or little knobs. Honest...

The BNF (British National Formulary) states the following in the general section on Anabolic Steroids

The protein-building properties of anabolic steroids have not proven beneficial in the clinical setting. Their use as body builders or tonics is quite unjustified; some athletes abuse them.

The only one mentioned specifically is Nandrolone (Deca-Durabolin)

Cautions: cardiac and renal impairment, hepatic impairment, hypertension, diabetes mellitus, epilepsy, migraine; monitor skeletal maturation in young patients: skeletal metastases (risk of hypercalcaemia).

Contra-indications (skipped)

Side-Effects: acne, sodium retention with oedema, virilisation with high doses including voice changes (sometimes irreversible) amenorrhoea, inhibition of spermatogenesis, premature epiphyseal closure; abnormal liver function tests reported with high doses: liver tumours reported occasionally on prolonged treatment.

As background the cautions and side effects have either been reported by the drug company during trials or by the "yellow card scheme" to the Commission on Human Medicines. This is where a side effect (not neccesarily adverse)is noted by anyone in the medical field and is then reported. It may not be the best system as due the nature of the scheme it often leads to under-reporting but it is the best we have.

ramseyoptom wrote:The BNF (British National Formulary) states the following in the general section on Anabolic Steroids

The protein-building properties of anabolic steroids have not proven beneficial in the clinical setting. Their use as body builders or tonics is quite unjustified; some athletes abuse them.

Well from what I understand, anabolics don't build muscle, they basically improve recovery so you can train harder and more often, allowing your body to bypass the breakdown stage of muscle repair->growth process. Just giving someone anabolics without them doing anyting isn't going to give them muscle, the need to workout hard and often.

Sovereign wrote:

ramseyoptom wrote:The BNF (British National Formulary) states the following in the general section on Anabolic Steroids

The protein-building properties of anabolic steroids have not proven beneficial in the clinical setting. Their use as body builders or tonics is quite unjustified; some athletes abuse them.

Well from what I understand, anabolics don't build muscle, they basically improve recovery so you can train harder and more often, allowing your body to bypass the breakdown stage of muscle repair->growth process. Just giving someone anabolics without them doing anyting isn't going to give them muscle, the need to workout hard and often.

Yeah that's my understanding also. A bit of a personal anecdote here: Me and a friend of mine used to work out together a lot around our early 20's, both of us skinny and around 65-70 kg's and having a hard time gaining any noticable muscle, though it did happen it took ages. Gained 4-5 kg over 1.5 years. Body shape changed more than size with most of the muscle gains on lower body (legs+core).
We part ways because of different jobs and living place at some point, I don't see him for 6 months. Suddenly spot him on the street close to where I live 6 months after we stopped hanging out regularly, we start talking and I notice he's suddenly huge and comments on it, asks wtf happened. He "got a tough physical job as a butcher and works out a lot bla bla". Uhh, ok. O.o
He says we should go out this night, have a drink, talk about old times and hit on some ladies. Ok. We go home to my place, he's carrying a sportsbag with him since he just came from the gym and is still wearing some sports clothes. Says I should try on a t-shirt (his size used to be same as mine) he bought. Holes for his arms are litterally twice the size of mine. My arms look like spaghetti noodles. I laugh out loud, realize he probably only asked for that to show off.

Ask him what he weighs now, he steps on a scale, he weighs 96 kg. Yes, ninetysix kilogrammes. He weighed around 70 last time I saw him, 6 months ago. Hits the gym no more regularly than we used to, eats more or less the same types of food(just more) but in the mean time managed to gain 26 kilos of muscle and can out-lift me by a factor of 2.5-3 on almost every workout. Over the course of 6 months.
6 months.

I never asked him if he used steroids, but given our earlier history and the short time within where this transformation took place, I don't see any other explanation.

Sovereign wrote:

ramseyoptom wrote:The BNF (British National Formulary) states the following in the general section on Anabolic Steroids

The protein-building properties of anabolic steroids have not proven beneficial in the clinical setting. Their use as body builders or tonics is quite unjustified; some athletes abuse them.

Well from what I understand, anabolics don't build muscle, they basically improve recovery so you can train harder and more often, allowing your body to bypass the breakdown stage of muscle repair->growth process. Just giving someone anabolics without them doing anyting isn't going to give them muscle, the need to workout hard and often.

This is wrong. Mostly. Muscle needs to be broken apart for growth, 'the burn' is the sensation of this happening, there is no bypassing the event. Steroids don't build new muscle however, they transit protein into the cells at a superior rate. They will accelerate repair as well as selling the muscles. You obviously know they are used for eating diseases.
More to follow.

Thanks for your comments, they have been helpful.

There will be a bias of course, people will defend their lifestyle, but many BB forums carry clear information these days and most yet to inform & warn those wishing to 'turn to the dark side', as its often called. One BB meme is - educate before you medicate - people are largely discouraged from even taking pills, like your friend. Pills are seen as the gentle way in, but in the BB world pills aren't great, mostly because men need testosterone in them, the injectable stuff, oral synthetics are a poor substitute and are used by most guys as a compliment, not an alternative.
Also, the aggression is slightly hyped but noted, it's dismissed by many as assholes becoming worse, rather than all users turning into monsters. Dianabol, the drug I bet your mate is using is known to make men more amiable instead, lucid even.
I'll pm you something later, if you think your friend may need tips (a good forum I use, that's all).

Ironclad wrote:There will be a bias of course, people will defend their lifestyle, but many BB forums carry clear information these days and most yet to inform & warn those wishing to 'turn to the dark side', as its often called. One BB meme is - educate before you medicate - people are largely discouraged from even taking pills, like your friend. Pills are seen as the gentle way in, but in the BB world pills aren't great, mostly because men need testosterone in them, the injectable stuff, oral synthetics are a poor substitute and are used by most guys as a compliment, not an alternative.
Also, the aggression is slightly hyped but noted, it's dismissed by many as assholes becoming worse, rather than all users turning into monsters. Dianabol, the drug I bet your mate is using is known to make men more amiable instead, lucid even.
I'll pm you something later, if you think your friend may need tips (a good forum I use, that's all).

Cheers, that would be useful.

I was thinking about the psychological factors as well, he is a very insecure bloke. Lets say he controls his girlfriend out of paranonia, after just talking to one guy on facebook he told her she has to delete her facebook account and he has kissed her friends. I know this sounds Jeremy Kyle stuff but I just thought maybe the steroids will increase paranonia or just enhance these sides of his personality.

He needs to sort out his emotions before using hormones. Steroids are mistakenly thought to affect only muscle but that's not the full picture. Mood will alter especially as the course (cycle) ends & for time after. A depressed man with issues needs to leave it alone.com maybe he is so clingy or paranoid he thinks muscle well scare off competitors. Wrong move.com he'll just become that asshole.
TT, do me a favor (but don't piss him off) ask him what the pills are then ask him what he's using for PCT. If he doesn't know what you mean you want to get back to me. Don't panic, it's not overly urgent, I'm interested to see if he has put any thought into this.

Excuse those .com's that kept appearing. My keyboard is playing up

Ironclad wrote:He needs to sort out his emotions before using hormones. Steroids are mistakenly thought to affect only muscle but that's not the full picture. Mood will alter especially as the course (cycle) ends & for time after. A depressed man with issues needs to leave it alone.com maybe he is so clingy or paranoid he thinks muscle well scare off competitors. Wrong move.com he'll just become that asshole.
TT, do me a favor (but don't piss him off) ask him what the pills are then ask him what he's using for PCT. If he doesn't know what you mean you want to get back to me. Don't panic, it's not overly urgent, I'm interested to see if he has put any thought into this.

I know he is taking it orally not with injection. I can't ask him or he will think his girlfriend has been spreading bad things about him and get more defensive. I got a description from the girlfriend they are orange triangle pills. Not sure if those are the correct ones.

Ironclad wrote:Excuse those .com's that kept appearing. My keyboard is playing up

I thought it was young person humor, I chuckled.

man, I'm several years older than you. Less hairy too.

Toast, either let him deal with it or casually ask her to find the packaging & identify the pills. He will be ok though, steroids aren't his main problem, I'd say.

More anectdotes. A friend participated in a test, where he was medicated with a substance with testosterone as part of it. This was controlled by doctors, so there was no risk of overdosing. Anyway, as a side effect, he became more aggressive towards his girlfriend, and assaulted a couple of guys over nothing. He was taken off the test. Moral: even when the conditions are controlled, you cannot predict the outcome.

Ironclad wrote:man, I'm several years older than you. Less hairy too.

Well your real age isn't displayed, so I had no idea how young or old you are. I do need a shave.

(Sorry about OT, I'm following the thread but had nothing to add.)