orpheus wrote:Bad fibro day today. Does anyone else find that it also seems to affect the mind? I feel like I'm trying to think through a fog. Moving slowly - not just physically but also mentally. Maybe it's just that the physical discomfort is hogging my awareness. Whatever, it's very frustrating.

Sorry to hear of your flare-up!

I recall reading that the "brain fog" that is typical of both fibromyalgia and CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome / ME) may be attributable to elevated levels of nitric oxide.
Vitamin B12, because it affects nitric oxide metabolism, may be helpful...
Link:
http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/B12_-_rationale_for_using_vitamin_B12_in_CFS

Thank you, Mike. I've not heard of this before; looks interesting and potentially helpful.

You're welcome! Hope you feel better soon!

Astreja wrote:

orpheus wrote:The frustrating thing is that I used to be a long-distance runner, I lifted weights, and I swam regularly. I was very used to exercise, I knew how to do it, what to expect, what to watch out for, etc.

That's frustrating, all right. I used to be heavily involved in both weightlifting and martial arts, and also did some jogging one summer. Sometimes I wonder if the heavy training "broke" something but didn't show up for some years after the fact, because it seems like everything crashed and burned in a bizarre chain reaction from the late '90s onward. Combination of exercise wear and tear with emotional stress -> Derangement of the body's cellular energy systems?

I've wondered this about myself too, and so have several others with whom I've spoken. It could be simply the body aging - an unfortunate process. But maybe there's something more they don't know about yet. There's still a lot medical science has to learn about these conditions. I remember my neurologist saying that neurologists and rheumatologists are fighting a "reverse" battle over fibromyalgia: neither side wants it, because it's so diffuse, hard to pin down and hard to treat. It's still early days for the medical field on this one.

And speaking of emotion, there's also the sense of failing oneself because I'm *not* training 7 days a week in changquan or karate or jiujutsu, or doing a heavy 2-hour gym workout every second day. At an intellectual level I know that's pure BS, and that I'm engaging in dichotomous thinking, and that there are perfectly acceptable forms of light aerobics that help ease FM pain. At a gut level, though, I'm still longing to be someone who no longer exists.

Yes. This is certainly familiar. Your last sentence is so true; and it may be the hardest thing for me to accept about myself.

Agrippina wrote:The great news is that we're possibly moving back to the mountains in a few weeks. I'll keep you guys posted on my pain/weight loss progress also as a way to keep a diary of how living in a friendlier environment helps to improve my general health.

@Agrippina, any updates? Hoping things are going well for you.

Hi Orpheus
Sorry I haven't been around with the move and then a trip up north for a 2 year old's birthday.

My weight is dropping slowly. We moved on 17 October, and I've lost almost 5 kg. It doesn't seem like a lot but if you line up 5 kgs of butter, it puts it into perspective.

Painwise: When we moved here, I was alone for a few days so I overdid the work of unpacking boxes and hanging curtains etc. This caused a lot of muscle strain which took a while to heal and involved my having to buy a "crutch" walking stick to help me stay on my feet. Also I was walking the dog on my own, so there were more long-used muscles being made to work again. I've since been able to put the stick away, hopefully for a long time.

A few weeks later, I'm used to walking, and if I don't climb up and down ladders, and if I don't do any heavy lifting, I feel very well. Emotionally, it's always a strain visiting the family with in-laws who don't get me, but that's another issue.

There is very definitely a connection between desserts and my pain. I'm absolutely positive about this now. If I don't have any desserts, and most especially a combination of sugar, flour, eggs and cream, as in eclairs, cupcakes, heavy cakes and chocolates, I don't go into a three-day pain attack. I can remain relatively free of pain if I stick to a healthy eating plan, and being vegetarian it isn't hard to do that, avoid excessive muscle strain, and sweet stuff.

Agrippina wrote:There is very definitely a connection between desserts and my pain. I'm absolutely positive about this now. If I don't have any desserts, and most especially a combination of sugar, flour, eggs and cream, as in eclairs, cupcakes, heavy cakes and chocolates, I don't go into a three-day pain attack. I can remain relatively free of pain if I stick to a healthy eating plan, and being vegetarian it isn't hard to do that, avoid excessive muscle strain, and sweet stuff.

Go on... just one bite... you know you want to...

Agrippina wrote:Hi Orpheus
Sorry I haven't been around with the move and then a trip up north for a 2 year old's birthday.

My weight is dropping slowly. We moved on 17 October, and I've lost almost 5 kg. It doesn't seem like a lot but if you line up 5 kgs of butter, it puts it into perspective.

Painwise: When we moved here, I was alone for a few days so I overdid the work of unpacking boxes and hanging curtains etc. This caused a lot of muscle strain which took a while to heal and involved my having to buy a "crutch" walking stick to help me stay on my feet. Also I was walking the dog on my own, so there were more long-used muscles being made to work again. I've since been able to put the stick away, hopefully for a long time.

A few weeks later, I'm used to walking, and if I don't climb up and down ladders, and if I don't do any heavy lifting, I feel very well. Emotionally, it's always a strain visiting the family with in-laws who don't get me, but that's another issue.

There is very definitely a connection between desserts and my pain. I'm absolutely positive about this now. If I don't have any desserts, and most especially a combination of sugar, flour, eggs and cream, as in eclairs, cupcakes, heavy cakes and chocolates, I don't go into a three-day pain attack. I can remain relatively free of pain if I stick to a healthy eating plan, and being vegetarian it isn't hard to do that, avoid excessive muscle strain, and sweet stuff.

Thanks, Aggie. The move sounds really stressful, but I'm glad to know you're feeling better. And an interesting point about foods. I was beginning to wonder that for myself. Am now cutting way down on sweets.

Mike_L wrote:

Agrippina wrote:There is very definitely a connection between desserts and my pain. I'm absolutely positive about this now. If I don't have any desserts, and most especially a combination of sugar, flour, eggs and cream, as in eclairs, cupcakes, heavy cakes and chocolates, I don't go into a three-day pain attack. I can remain relatively free of pain if I stick to a healthy eating plan, and being vegetarian it isn't hard to do that, avoid excessive muscle strain, and sweet stuff.

Go on... just one bite... you know you want to...

You're just plain evil Mike. You know how I love those from Food Lovers' Market.

Give it a try Orpheus. It's hard to deny yourself the tasty stuff but it does seem to help. I don't know if a vegetarian diet helps. According to the rheumatologist I used to see, there's too many sugars in fruit. He likes the Atkins High Protein diet. I know that I lose weight on that but I don't want to eat animal flesh so I can't do that. I seem to be ok as long as I don't have too many refined starches.

This Mayo Clinic practitioner suggests that diet has no effect on fibro pain. I'm not sure that I agree.
During my on-and-off bouts with chronic pelvic pain syndrome (which has features in common with fibromyalgia and ME), I have been on sugar-free, low-GI eating plans -- adhering diligently to them for months at a time. I never found the regimen to make much of a difference, one way or the other. However, I don't dismiss for a moment that some people will derive benefit from a low-carb, low-GI eating pattern. Every person is different, and what has little or no effect on one may well have adverse effects on another.
Foods with a high glycaemic index can cause fluctations in blood sugar. These, in turn, can affect levels of the hormone adrenalin (typically released when blood sugar falls, which it may do after first "spiking" to a high). The "stress state" associated with raised adrenalin levels may aggravate fibro pain.
Fluctuating blood sugar levels may also affect the uptake of the amino acid tryptophan, which is the precursor of the neurotransmitter serotonin (low levels of which have been linked to fibromyalgia).

My tip, if you simply cannot resist the candies, cookies and cakes...
Don't eat the sweet food on an empty stomach! The effect of high-GI foods on blood sugar is more pronounced if there are no "competing foods" in the stomach and small intestine. Proteins and fats slow down the digestion, thereby ameliorating the speed at which carbohydrates pass into the bloodstream. So a dessert eaten after a proper meal (containing meats and/or cheese and/or legumes) will have much less effect on blood sugar than will a cookie eaten as a mid-morning snack.

On a personal note...
While sugars and sugar-rich foods had/have no effect on my condition, I found that these definitely did/do aggravate my pain:
* wine (white and red) and beer... but not dry cider (the alcohol-containing one).
* cola beverages and coffee... but not tea. (Quite the opposite, I have always found that green tea lessens pain, perhaps because of its beneficial theanine content).
* MSG (monosodium glutamate) and "disguised" MSG (such as hydrolysed vegetable protein (HVP)).
* soy sauce.

Edit: corrected spelling error:
Fluctuating blood sugar levels may also effect affect the uptake of the amino acid tryptophan...

For a steady diet, I'm going to experiment with some changes. But when in the midst of a flare-up, my appetite drops to zero. (This is why I lost so much weight last summer. My friends said "boy, you look great!". Ha!)

"No pain, no gain"... or is that "no gain, no pain"... or "pain, but no gain"... or... oh, never mind!

Thanks for that info Mike. I think you might be quite right about the eating of high carb/high sugar foods on an empty stomach. I don't get pain related to those foods if I have a small dessert after a big meal, but do if I eat them as a meal. So "Continental breakfasts" of sweet pastries are a no-no but "English" breakfasts of high protein are fine, even if I end the meal with toast and marmalade.

Wine, in moderation is fine, as long as I drink with food as well. Just sipping wine without food, apart from being intoxicating, will possibly also cause the pain problem. I don't do that anyway. I have a small glass with my dinner on most evenings, or a beer and Sprite zero shandy with lunch on very hot days, but I never drink alcohol on an empty stomach.

I have decided to cut down on carbs a little in an effort to lose more weight along with the regular walking I'm doing now. I'm sure that some weight loss will also be beneficial.

Plaudits! Sounds like a healthy, well-balanced approach!

HI all,

Its been while since being on this thread. My wife has gone into a state of depression and her body is really playing her up. To help myself to get through this I have got some counselling while I have been working 2 jobs and occupying our children Telemachus on the weekends. I have been keeping her involving trying to accomplish 2 - 3 goals per day to help her through it. But after some research she did on the internet, she has booked an appointment with the doctor as she has found some potential therapies to help her. So she wants to discuss them with her doctor, she has found apparently magnetism helps - this is an article I just found - http://voices.yahoo.com/the-connection-between-magnesium-fibromyalgia-113958.html?cat=5.

I'll be skeptical with everything I investigate apparently people are claiming stem cells help. Trying to investigate it further.

I hope everyone is doing better or well.

orpheus wrote:Bad fibro day today. Does anyone else find that it also seems to affect the mind? I feel like I'm trying to think through a fog. Moving slowly - not just physically but also mentally. Maybe it's just that the physical discomfort is hogging my awareness. Whatever, it's very frustrating.

My wife gets that fog thinking. when I ask her what she would want for dinner between two meals she couldn't decided and started crying. It looks so fustrating.

I am reading up on what Mike has put in the thread to give to my wife when i get back from work. Cheers for the info Mike.

I just realized there are lots of posts here I have missed. I will have to catch up with my reading!

The Christmas food diet has wreaked havoc on my pain problem. I forget that I shouldn't eat sugary stuff and then pay for it with days of pain. I'm in my second day of no sugar, and starting to feel a little better.

Agrippina wrote:The Christmas food diet has wreaked havoc on my pain problem. I forget that I shouldn't eat sugary stuff and then pay for it with days of pain. I'm in my second day of no sugar, and starting to feel a little better.

Yeah, this is a tough season. I'm having a hard time resisting.

Quoting myself from an earlier post...

Mike_L wrote:I can identify with the two preceding posts... I have found that high intensity exercise will almost always result in a flare-up of pain and -- more often than not -- several days of a general "ill feeling". However, daily moderate exercise (walking) actually seems to have a protective effect against the painful muscle spasms. I've even managed a few low-intensity hikes without any after-effects.

I forgot to mention that I had a bit of a flare-up after the most recent hike four weeks ago, which required quite a bit of exertion.
I decided to test whether or not green tea (4 cups a day) would make any difference...
* Pain did seem to be slightly less (I'd estimate an approx. 50% reduction in intensity).
* The fatigue associated with flare-ups seemed to be considerably lessened (an approx. 75% reduction).
* The flare up was quite short-lived (gone in 2 days instead of 3 - 5 days).

I can't dismiss the possibility that the improvement was a placebo effect... or that it just happened to be a mild flare-up, unaffected by the green tea one way or another. But it's also possible that it was a genuine lessening of symptoms, attributable to the beneficial theanine content of the tea. Theanine is reputed to have anxiolytic (calming) and mood-enhancing effects. It is also thought to have a transient "blocking" effect at the NMDA receptor site (the NMDA receptors are part of the "transmission network" of chronic pain).

Some tips for those wanting to try green tea...
* The beneficial theanine is denatured by boiling-point temperatures. Green tea should ideally be made with water that is hot, but not boiling. About 70 - 80 °C is ideal. (That's below boiling-point, but hotter than the water from your hot-water tap).
* Have it "neat" -- i.e. without milk, sugar, honey, lemon, etc. The taste is quite bitter, but not unpleasant (IMHO).
* Avoid intake of food that contains monosodium glutamate (MSG, E621), E627, E631, or "flavour enhancers" that contain glutamate (such as hydrolysed vegetable protein (HVP)). This is because MSG and similar substances "compete" with theanine, reducing its beneficial effects.