Lazar wrote:Be interested to get the opinion of folks who attended on Tanya Levin. I read a little bits of her book and felt it was a little overly . Was she any good in person and did she have anything useful to say?

Tanya's bit was short as she was one speaker out of four, but I thought it was a good insight into her time in Hillsong, and how repressive their attitudes to women were.

xrayzed wrote:

Lazar wrote:Be interested to get the opinion of folks who attended on Tanya Levin. I read a little bits of her book and felt it was a little overly . Was she any good in person and did she have anything useful to say?

Tanya's bit was short as she was one speaker out of four, but I thought it was a good insight into her time in Hillsong, and how repressive their attitudes to women were.

I sat down in Borders for a bit and read through her book to see if I wanted to buy it...I didn't. but if her talk was good then that is good

What about Taslima Nasrin? Did she attend?

natselrox wrote:What about Taslima Nasrin? Did she attend?

Why the yuk icon?

I'd not heard of Taslima Nasrin before but I know of her now. She received a very deserved standing ovation after giving a dignified and measured talk about her experiences on being banished from her homeland and kicked out of India for daring to speak out against Islam. She spoke of being a refugee in the world. She spoke out against Islam and its treatment of women.

She was awesome and I feel privileged I got to hear this remarkable woman speak.

What is is about her you don't like?

Praxis wrote:

natselrox wrote:What about Taslima Nasrin? Did she attend?

Why the yuk icon?

I'd not heard of Taslima Nasrin before but I know of her now. She received a very deserved standing ovation after giving a dignified and measured talk about her experiences on being banished from her homeland and kicked out of India for daring to speak out against Islam. She spoke of being a refugee in the world. She spoke out against Islam and its treatment of women.

She was awesome and I feel privileged I got to hear this remarkable woman speak.

What is is about her you don't like?[/quote

Kicked out of India for speaking against Islam? Sounds unlikely... sure it wasn't Pakistan? or Bangladesh?

Praxis wrote:What is is about her you don't like?

Her writings. Even Dan Brown writes better than her.

virphen wrote:Kicked out of India for speaking against Islam? Sounds unlikely... sure it wasn't Pakistan? or Bangladesh?

She was first kicked out of Bangladesh. Then she got refuge in Kolkata (my city) where she lived till 2008. Then a riot broke out with an angry mob set to get her. The army was deployed to defuse the tension. She was 'requested' to leave the country for some time. But she has returned to India and is currently staying here. Quite a bit of drama is going on regarding the extension of her visa.

ack, what happened there?

Lion IRC wrote:It would be ironic if atheists who spoke at the Convention (like Mr Dawkins who thinks the sacred bones of ancestors are just "specimens") were welcome to promote their ideology. A dull and lifeless ideology which, among other things;

Oh dear, here we go

Lion IRC wrote:*Rejects the existence of the “soul” ...

Appart from assertions and uncritical acceptance of old ideas, I've not heard of any good reason why anyone should require the concept of a soul.

Lion IRC wrote:....and would regard Aboriginal “sacred sites” as superstitious mythology. (Yes, some atheists do actually snigger and make jokes about such things)

Well, they are superstitious mythology, just like every single other religious belief - by definition. This in no way denies that such beliefs are important to many people. But for some people it's important to lock their door three times before they can go out - obviously silly, but also important to them.

Lion IRC wrote:[i]*Preaches empirical science as PROOF that there is no such thing as Dreamtime - the very thing which underpins Aboriginal continuous connection to country.

Science never proves anything, that's the realm of mathematics. A scientific theory is simply an explanation for observations about the real world that hasn't been falsified yet and replaced with a better explanation.

Lion IRC wrote:*Refutes the power of mind over matter as illogical and primitive voodooism – Maybe Ms Deveny thinks Gadaicha (pointing the bone) would make a good comedy skit.

Mind over matter is unverified. The only instance where there's something to it is how the 'mind' (which after all is an emergent property of the brain's activities) can influence our body's health to some extent.

Lion IRC wrote:*Advocates the supremacy of science and technology (enlightenment they call it) over that primitive Paleolithic way of life which (by the way) managed to make it 40,000 years without polluting the air, spewing filth into the ocean, clearing trees, melting ice bergs, endangering and eradicating whole species of animals just so we can all have mobile phones and 6 foot plasma screen TV’s to sit and stare at documentaries about the billion dollar projects science loves such as space travel and Hadron particle colliders or movies like Avatar where “primitive” people “collide” with the advanced, high-tech “civilization whose only “religion” is money

Ah yes, the noble savage. It's true because TV told me so. Pre-industrial humans wiped out their fair share of species, but because there were so few of them it wasn't quite as severe as right now. Of course our excessive western way of life is bad news for the planet - and who will be the first to tell you that? The scientists.

And hey, check this out:

Moses 1:28 wrote:And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

the 'replenish' bit seems to get forgotten by most.

My guess is that you've benefitted from science and technology every single day of your life in some form. I'm guessing you don't reject much of it, considering you posted here.

Lion IRC wrote:I realise the so-called “New Atheism” fills a need for counter-culture, pseudo intellectuals to flock together and pretend they are so much smarter than us.

What's the difference between an Atheist and a New Atheist?
A New Atheist just one the Catholic Church can't legally burn anymore

Atheism is the inevitable end result of rational inquiry - anyone can try it, even dumb people. It doesn't fill any void, it's defined by the lack of belief in irrational superstition.

Lion IRC wrote:And I know they think we are all so “deluded” for being interested in…”tarot cards, quartz crystals, wicca, feng shui, meditation/prayer, falun gong, native wisdom, dream interpretation, animal sixth sense, religious vegetarianism, Reiki, out of body experiences, the afterlife, placebo effects, Rastafarianism, ancestor worship, religious funeral services, 2 minutes silence on Anzac Day, thinking about God/Allah/Brahma/Vishnu, Collingwood Football Club, astrology, numerology, mental telepathy, black holes, time travel, alien life, dark energy, parallel universes….(No wait! Are some of those OK according to atheists? I’m not sure. They make their own rules. Truth is stranger than fiction. Cosmology. etc.) When you invite yourself into our living rooms and critique our lives and values don’t be surprised when you find we will stick together.

You can be interested in all of those. Just don't expect to be taken seriously if you have not good evidence that they are real. And since when were black holes and dark energy ideas that originated before scientists hypothesised them?!?

Lion IRC wrote:Just remember, Ms Deveny, when a bunch of atheists get together and make fun of "the rest of us" – you are picking a pretty big fight. I notice many of the guest speakers at the New Atheism Convention like to poke fun at a very small slice of “religion” and Christian leaders like George Pell make cheap targets for New Atheist bullies.

Bullies, very cute. How often have atheists killed in the name of their atheism (Stalin don't count, he did it for an economic system and good old power)? How many atheist terrorists are there? How many religious people in the USA didn't dare to run for president because of the atheist bullies?

Lion IRC wrote: But the “superstitions” you attack and ridicule comprise a very BIG target indeed and they have been around for a very long time.

As Tim Minchin says: "Just because ideas are tenaceous, doesn't mean that they're worthy"

Lion IRC wrote: When the hunter religions of the Paleolithic age encountered the rise of agriculture, religion didn’t die. When the high tech Mesopotamian city states rose up Neolithic farmers moved to the city where they had brand new Ziggurats and temples. When the Renaissance came, temples just got bigger and became Cathedrals. Religious art evolved from cave walls to priceless paintings hanging in galleries like Palais du Louvre.

You do realise that leaders have always appreciated the power that religion has to subdue and control their subjects. Of course they are going to maintain that in the populace.

Lion IRC wrote:And when the “Age of Reason” arrived and was supposed to replace religion with a utopia of enlightenment and empirical evidence, look what we got instead - Chaos theory. Uncertainty Principles. Quantum Weirdness. A no-boundary universe which appears to us the same in any direction we look – just as if we are at the center. The telescope and the microscope didn’t remove mystery – they gave us more mystery than we could have EVER imagined.

Oh I see. It's not that you think these things are wrong, they just scare the crap out of you. That's so sad. Humanity has to grow up and face reality, no more sucking on your mythical thumb, with big sky daddy to look after you and tell you what to do so you don't have to figure it out for yourself.

Lion IRC wrote:So your religion (non-stamp collecting) ...

Ah shit. You really don't get it.

Lion IRC wrote:...which spends so much time telling us there is no such thing as stamps and organises Global Non-Stamp Collector Conventions where you sit around talking about “not collecting imaginary stamps” and how unfair it is that the tax payers of Australia won’t kick in to help pay for a “Convention About Nothing”, is about as useful in providing the Meaning of Life as George Costanza - a character from that other “Show About Nothing” – Seinfeld.

Lion (IRC)

How about using a better term for atheist: rather than calling it a 'religion' call it a 'philosophy' is you must. There are many different view point on this 'philosophy' and how it relates to the rest of the world and vice versa. Can you begin to imagine how we could spend several days talking about such a 'philosophy'?

Praxis wrote:

natselrox wrote:What about Taslima Nasrin? Did she attend?

Why the yuk icon?

I'd not heard of Taslima Nasrin before but I know of her now. She received a very deserved standing ovation after giving a dignified and measured talk about her experiences on being banished from her homeland and kicked out of India for daring to speak out against Islam. She spoke of being a refugee in the world. She spoke out against Islam and its treatment of women.

She was awesome and I feel privileged I got to hear this remarkable woman speak.

What is is about her you don't like?

My sentiments as well Praxis.

I don't know anything about her other than what she spoke about herself at the conference.

You're going to have to elaborate further for us Nats (please).

I like her spunk especially at around 8yrs or 10 yrs old (can't remember exactly) when she asked her mother why she had to prey to Allah in Arabic and not in her native Bangladeshi ... why, she asked her mother, if Allah is all powerful can't he speak Bangladeshi? ... quite observant and thoughtful. Her mother scolder her and told her not to ask such rude questions and that if she spoke badly of Allah her tongue would fall out ... so she did the experiment ... she went into the bathroom and said lots of nasty things about the prophet ... waited for 10 minutes for her tongue to fall out but it didn't.

That kind of critical thinking from someone so young really resonated with me.

I couldn't imagine what it must be like to be kicked out of your own country for seemingly being an atheist.

I know nothing of her writings ... she could write the worst B grade movie scripts for all I care ... still doesn't deserve to be an 'internally displace person' as the euphemism goes.

Inaccurate media reports are allowing people to write stupid-ass blog entries like this:

http://web.overland.org.au/2010/03/19/r ... e-country/

Vikki wrote:Inaccurate media reports are allowing people to write stupid-ass blog entries like this:

http://web.overland.org.au/2010/03/19/r ... e-country/

What an utter wanker. Its too late at night for me to come up with proper criticism of this rubbish.

Witticism wrote:I don't know anything about her other than what she spoke about herself at the conference.

You're going to have to elaborate further for us Nats (please).

I like her spunk especially at around 8yrs or 10 yrs old (can't remember exactly) when she asked her mother why she had to prey to Allah in Arabic and not in her native Bangladeshi ... why, she asked her mother, if Allah is all powerful can't he speak Bangladeshi? ... quite observant and thoughtful. Her mother scolder her and told her not to ask such rude questions and that if she spoke badly of Allah her tongue would fall out ... so she did the experiment ... she went into the bathroom and said lots of nasty things about the prophet ... waited for 10 minutes for her tongue to fall out but it didn't.

That kind of critical thinking from someone so young really resonated with me.

I couldn't imagine what it must be like to be kicked out of your own country for seemingly being an atheist.

Not only from her own country, she was expelled from India as well. And to think of India boasting about its secular nature...

I know nothing of her writings ... she could write the worst B grade movie scripts for all I care ... still doesn't deserve to be an 'internally displace person' as the euphemism goes.

How could I even think that she deserved anything of what she had to go through?

All I tried to say was that she IS a pathetic writer. I read her first book in Bengali when I was about 12 and I still can't get the taste off my mouth. Bengali is a beautiful language and it's very hard to believe that someone has really written that shit called 'Lajja' in the language!

Check this out for part of Taslima's speech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS5xbeG9nRA
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS5xbeG9nRA[/youtube]

Wrote up my piece for the CSI column over at:
The ‘Token Skeptic’ at the Rise of Atheism—Global Atheist Convention, Melbourne, Australia.
Hope you like it!

podblack wrote:Wrote up my piece for the CSI column over at:
The ‘Token Skeptic’ at the Rise of Atheism—Global Atheist Convention, Melbourne, Australia.
Hope you like it!

You are my new hero. If anyone can take the baton from RD, you can.

Love your work Kylie.

Durro wrote:Love your work Kylie.

Magicziggy wrote:
You are my new hero. If anyone can take the baton from RD, you can.

I'm just sorry that I lost my password to this place and only just saw these now! Thanks so much. BTW, there's a bit of buzz going on over at the Atheist Foundation of Australia about plans for 2012, so may well be worth those who want to get some constructive criticism going and brainstorm a few ideas?

Thanks Kylie !

podblack wrote:

Durro wrote:Love your work Kylie.

Magicziggy wrote:
You are my new hero. If anyone can take the baton from RD, you can.

I'm just sorry that I lost my password to this place and only just saw these now! Thanks so much. BTW, there's a bit of buzz going on over at the Atheist Foundation of Australia about plans for 2012, so may well be worth those who want to get some constructive criticism going and brainstorm a few ideas?

I think that was where you were supposed to encourage everyone to demand that I be a guest speaker.

Yeah.