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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#21  Postby crank » Apr 24, 2016 5:11 pm

Sure, remove them from power, you can call in superman so no one else will die as you're removing them from power. Of course, such situations present all kinds of issues, like even if you can have them just disappear, the aftermath of that would likely lead to massive bloodshed. See recent, and not so recent, history of US projections of power for good examples. As long as we're wishing, you could just wish they got changed into a better person, but that is still killing them.

And you slid right past wanting your loved one to die, and that will happen to most of us. I think it's most, it's a big percentage.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#22  Postby laklak » Apr 24, 2016 5:51 pm

JB is of no import, what he does has less bearing on my life than a mosquito. MUCH less than a mosquito.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#23  Postby The_Piper » Apr 24, 2016 7:34 pm

crank wrote:Sure, remove them from power, you can call in superman so no one else will die as you're removing them from power. Of course, such situations present all kinds of issues, like even if you can have them just disappear, the aftermath of that would likely lead to massive bloodshed. See recent, and not so recent, history of US projections of power for good examples. As long as we're wishing, you could just wish they got changed into a better person, but that is still killing them.

And you slid right past wanting your loved one to die, and that will happen to most of us. I think it's most, it's a big percentage.

I understand reality, that doesn't mean I have to wish someone historically murderous to be dead. Wishing is not the same as reality, either, obviously. So the aftermath of magically removing a murderous leader would be massive bloodshed, but the aftermath of magically wishing one dead and having your wish come true and they drop dead, wouldn't?

I didn't just slide past wanting a loved one to die. This was a light-hearted thread, fuck that. But I want them to live. None of them have an incurable illness that is causing them suffering. Even so, my dad was on his death bed last year but has made a full recovery to the point that he's better off than before he got sick. Glad I didn't wish him to die!
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#24  Postby crank » Apr 24, 2016 8:15 pm

laklak wrote:JB is of no import, what he does has less bearing on my life than a mosquito. MUCH less than a mosquito.

That is extremely true, have y'all had any dengue fever cases in Fl? If not, you probably will before too long. South Tx has had a few, and I hear the mosquitoes are excited about taking advantage of the night life in Austin, but the bats are a bit of a deterrence.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#25  Postby crank » Apr 24, 2016 8:30 pm

The_Piper wrote:
crank wrote:Sure, remove them from power, you can call in superman so no one else will die as you're removing them from power. Of course, such situations present all kinds of issues, like even if you can have them just disappear, the aftermath of that would likely lead to massive bloodshed. See recent, and not so recent, history of US projections of power for good examples. As long as we're wishing, you could just wish they got changed into a better person, but that is still killing them.

And you slid right past wanting your loved one to die, and that will happen to most of us. I think it's most, it's a big percentage.

I understand reality, that doesn't mean I have to wish someone historically murderous to be dead. Wishing is not the same as reality, either, obviously. So the aftermath of magically removing a murderous leader would be massive bloodshed, but the aftermath of magically wishing one dead and having your wish come true and they drop dead, wouldn't?

I didn't just slide past wanting a loved one to die. This was a light-hearted thread, fuck that. But I want them to live. None of them have an incurable illness that is causing them suffering. Even so, my dad was on his death bed last year but has made a full recovery to the point that he's better off than before he got sick. Glad I didn't wish him to die!


My response was due to me tending to get irritated when people come up with glib statements like 'I would never wish anyone dead'. It's highly likely untrue, it's unrealistic, and in this case, if true, would be seriously wrong, a bad way to think, for a number of reasons. Have you seen statistics of how many people have ever wished someone dead? And of how many mothers have wished their child dead? Like 'violence never solves anything', too idiotic to take serious. The rest was just idle musings about practicalities.

It's wonderful your dad pulled through, but 'at deaths door' is not just vague, it doesn't even apply in a lot of cases. Someone who wouldn't wish anyone dead should be against assisted suicide, and that's just wrong, and evil.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#26  Postby The_Piper » Apr 24, 2016 11:16 pm

I never said I would never, but I can't remember ever wishing anyone was dead. Not even when I was a kid. Nowhere did I or Scot judge people who have. I understand it's a normal thing sometimes, to wish someone were dead, but that doesn't mean I have to have thought that before. Call it a bad way to think if you want, as if that wouldn't be irritating to me now?

About being on a death bed being a vague statement and not always applying, well, I know what I'm talking about. Without professional intervention, medicine, his going along with the program, and a lot of luck on top of that, he'd have died. It's probably all of that that's keeping him alive still.
Why have you wished a loved one dead? That seems to be more dependent on specific circumstances that not everyone experiences.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#27  Postby DougC » Apr 25, 2016 12:31 am

This thread has become a lot darker, faster, than I would have imagined.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#28  Postby laklak » Apr 25, 2016 12:39 am

crank wrote:
laklak wrote:JB is of no import, what he does has less bearing on my life than a mosquito. MUCH less than a mosquito.

That is extremely true, have y'all had any dengue fever cases in Fl? If not, you probably will before too long. South Tx has had a few, and I hear the mosquitoes are excited about taking advantage of the night life in Austin, but the bats are a bit of a deterrence.


No dengue yet, but no doubt it's on the way. Lot of media hysteria about Zika, though. I'm not worried, I spend my summers thoroughly covered in DEET. Gonna have to start spraying for mosquitoes again.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#29  Postby crank » Apr 25, 2016 2:41 am

The_Piper wrote:I never said I would never, but I can't remember ever wishing anyone was dead. Not even when I was a kid. Nowhere did I or Scot judge people who have. I understand it's a normal thing sometimes, to wish someone were dead, but that doesn't mean I have to have thought that before. Call it a bad way to think if you want, as if that wouldn't be irritating to me now?

About being on a death bed being a vague statement and not always applying, well, I know what I'm talking about. Without professional intervention, medicine, his going along with the program, and a lot of luck on top of that, he'd have died. It's probably all of that that's keeping him alive still.
Why have you wished a loved one dead? That seems to be more dependent on specific circumstances that not everyone experiences.

You're right you didn't say it, you did thumbs up the statement, I was responding to the statement, and you responded to my response. Few are ever put in a position to want such a thing, excepting the medical/quality of life thing, but it's always a possibility. That's why to me it's a glib, empty thing to say, though not as bad as 'everything happens for a reason'. Those people I almost would give an OK to want dead.

I don't doubt your knowing about your father, that doesn't mean the phrase isn't vague and used in a wide variety of ways, some more dire than others. Clearly, your dad had a chance, many don't, the only question is one of how much more they will have to put up with. Most anyone in the medical profession will tell you about that, most of them have pull-the-plug documents prepared. There are many not about to die, and the horror of that is more than they can bear. These aren't the most pleasant things to discuss, but the reticence of so many to even think about them is what puts them or their families in the difficult position of having to under the worst conditions.

Twice I've faced these circumstances, brother and father. My dad wasn't really suffering I don't think, he was just gone. When I saw my brother, I had to try to figure out a way to ask him if he wanted me to help him go away, but less than 2 hours later he was gone. I would have done anything he asked of me, though, and with a clear conscience. Today's medicine, at least in the US, is so fucked up, if you haven't had to face this yet, hope that luck holds. The hospitals and doctors are forced through legal BS, poorly informed patients/family, overly religious patients/family, and other factors to be party to torturing their patients, for years sometimes. A rather amusing thing, at least to me, was after my brother died, someone in the hospital room asked if I wanted to say goodbye to him, I looked up in weird confusion for a bit before I realized they actually thought I'd want to go talk to his body, I hope the revulsion I felt at the realization wasn't too evident on m face.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#30  Postby crank » Apr 25, 2016 2:42 am

DougC wrote:This thread has become a lot darker, faster, than I would have imagined.

The presence of Justine Bieber casts a pretty dark shadow over this world. And we now know it could make a decent sundial.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#31  Postby crank » Apr 25, 2016 2:55 am

laklak wrote:
crank wrote:
laklak wrote:JB is of no import, what he does has less bearing on my life than a mosquito. MUCH less than a mosquito.

That is extremely true, have y'all had any dengue fever cases in Fl? If not, you probably will before too long. South Tx has had a few, and I hear the mosquitoes are excited about taking advantage of the night life in Austin, but the bats are a bit of a deterrence.


No dengue yet, but no doubt it's on the way. Lot of media hysteria about Zika, though. I'm not worried, I spend my summers thoroughly covered in DEET. Gonna have to start spraying for mosquitoes again.

I was going to make a silly joke about it being unlikely you'd be pregnant, that's what I remember them saying about risks to adults, but wiki says it can cause Guillain–Barré syndrome, which isn't exactly a good thing. I love DEET, I hate DEET. I lived for a while where you could have 10, 20 or more trying to get at you at any one time, you got swarmed. If you got the serious deep-woods stuff, or the pure DEET, they were no problem. But the smell and the taste of the stuff [shudders], you have to put it on your face, invariably you're going to be sweating, it gets into your mouth. And it's all over your clothes, it follows you everywhere until you bathe. Plus, I think it actually can absorb enough to taste it even without the direct entry. No matter how horrible that is, it's loads better than the mosquitoes. Plus, it works to repel Justine Bieber too, I've never seen him even once after putting DEET on.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#32  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Apr 25, 2016 5:46 am

Scar wrote:He's an ass but I don't wish his death. Guys, really.


Wishing won't make it so, even if they were legit wishing.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#33  Postby The_Piper » Apr 26, 2016 12:01 am

crank wrote:
The_Piper wrote:I never said I would never, but I can't remember ever wishing anyone was dead. Not even when I was a kid. Nowhere did I or Scot judge people who have. I understand it's a normal thing sometimes, to wish someone were dead, but that doesn't mean I have to have thought that before. Call it a bad way to think if you want, as if that wouldn't be irritating to me now?

About being on a death bed being a vague statement and not always applying, well, I know what I'm talking about. Without professional intervention, medicine, his going along with the program, and a lot of luck on top of that, he'd have died. It's probably all of that that's keeping him alive still.
Why have you wished a loved one dead? That seems to be more dependent on specific circumstances that not everyone experiences.

You're right you didn't say it, you did thumbs up the statement, I was responding to the statement, and you responded to my response. Few are ever put in a position to want such a thing, excepting the medical/quality of life thing, but it's always a possibility. That's why to me it's a glib, empty thing to say, though not as bad as 'everything happens for a reason'. Those people I almost would give an OK to want dead.

I don't doubt your knowing about your father, that doesn't mean the phrase isn't vague and used in a wide variety of ways, some more dire than others. Clearly, your dad had a chance, many don't, the only question is one of how much more they will have to put up with. Most anyone in the medical profession will tell you about that, most of them have pull-the-plug documents prepared. There are many not about to die, and the horror of that is more than they can bear. These aren't the most pleasant things to discuss, but the reticence of so many to even think about them is what puts them or their families in the difficult position of having to under the worst conditions.

Twice I've faced these circumstances, brother and father. My dad wasn't really suffering I don't think, he was just gone. When I saw my brother, I had to try to figure out a way to ask him if he wanted me to help him go away, but less than 2 hours later he was gone. I would have done anything he asked of me, though, and with a clear conscience. Today's medicine, at least in the US, is so fucked up, if you haven't had to face this yet, hope that luck holds. The hospitals and doctors are forced through legal BS, poorly informed patients/family, overly religious patients/family, and other factors to be party to torturing their patients, for years sometimes. A rather amusing thing, at least to me, was after my brother died, someone in the hospital room asked if I wanted to say goodbye to him, I looked up in weird confusion for a bit before I realized they actually thought I'd want to go talk to his body, I hope the revulsion I felt at the realization wasn't too evident on m face.

:thumbup: :tongue: :lol:
Sorry to hear about your brother, Crank. But maybe the hospital employee wanted to give you a chance to see him as he was, not actually talk to his body, using the phrase "say goodbye" as a figure of speech?
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#34  Postby crank » Apr 26, 2016 5:52 pm

Thank you for the condolences, much appreciated. I had just seen him an hour before, and the person asking was really my mother. And, no, when people say 'say goodby', they mean what they say. I had no desire to see my brother's ex-body, it barely looked human and I had no desire to sere it in my memory anymore than it was already. I can understand people wanting to have a talk with the freshly deceased, or going to the grave, what I can't understand is how few think of what they are doing as symbolic. Or the catholic tradition of the pre-funeral, funeral-eve mass, I can't for the life of me remember what they call it, the body is right there up-front, center stage, open-coffin, so you can go kneel at it and talk? gawk? schadenfreude your ass off at it?, in all it's rotting-meat glory.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#35  Postby laklak » Apr 26, 2016 6:05 pm

Living Will, I'm just sayin. Without one they'll hook you up to any number of beeping machines and drain both your insurance and your family dry. Can run into literally millions of dollars, and for what? I read an article recently about oncologists, and how many of them refuse chemo, radiation, and surgery in favor of palliative care. They know they're on a hiding to nothing.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#36  Postby crank » Apr 26, 2016 7:35 pm

laklak wrote:Living Will, I'm just sayin. Without one they'll hook you up to any number of beeping machines and drain both your insurance and your family dry. Can run into literally millions of dollars, and for what? I read an article recently about oncologists, and how many of them refuse chemo, radiation, and surgery in favor of palliative care. They know they're on a hiding to nothing.

That''s what I said earlier, people in the medical profession who see these horrors regularly don't want that for themselves or any of their loved ones. I've heard this from quite a few, and it's common in written works by doctors/nurses. It wasn't something relevant in either of my families situations. My dad was a small town GP, the issues were known.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#37  Postby Oldskeptic » May 01, 2016 6:10 am

Didn't even know who he is, had to google him. How'd the little fucker get $200 million?
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#38  Postby Scar » May 01, 2016 9:15 am

Oldskeptic wrote:Didn't even know who he is, had to google him. How'd the little fucker get $200 million?

He is (was) cute and a passable singer.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#39  Postby Scot Dutchy » May 01, 2016 10:03 am

A pampered git more like it. Reminds me of the Monkeys rise to fame. Just one massive PR job but there was a real difference the Monkeys could make a passable noise that sounded like music.
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Re: Justin Bieber tragedy

#40  Postby crank » May 01, 2016 11:33 am

BLASPHEMER!!!!!!

The Monkees were actually pretty good, had real talent, particularly Michael Nesmith, whose solo career produced some fine music and early videos. Plus, Bob Rafelson was one of the two guys behind the bands creation, he co-wrote, produced, and directed Five Easy Pieces and King of Marvin Gardens, this isn't some slick producer trying to churn out crap music for a quick buck, no way. You really can't cast The Monkees as just a PR-driven early 'Boy Band' phenomenon, they don't fit the mould, way too out'a sync with them. I still like some of the songs I heard on the TV show when it initially aired, on top of all of that, Davy Jones was just dreamy.






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