Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

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Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#1  Postby Wonderfeel » Feb 10, 2015 6:38 am

Hi Skeptics!
I have been finding myself reading skeptics' boards recently and I appreciate the fresh ideas circulating. Its a cool way to get at the issues with any brand of spiritual practice in a quick time.
It surprises me how many conversations are deeply thoughtful, and sure there's plenty of rubbishing the latest 'pseudoscience' : )

I started as a hardcore skeptic, and was confronted by some astrology my partner at the time shared with me. The experience of having most of my known negative patterns and challenges described to me in a dozen pages of a book, and specific suggestions given for going well in life, meant I had to keep an open mind....
I studied all sorts of psychologies, mainstream and non-mainstream, have done heaps of transformational processes and learnt from a gazillion different tools that can support personal evolution. I have even authored a couple of oracle card decks myself!

I'm happy to receive any requests for how you'd like a spiritual person to be... : )
Personal or general.

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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#2  Postby Scarlett » Feb 10, 2015 7:31 am

Hi, from a person who doesn't have a spiritual bone in her body!

I'm finding myself sceptical about how a 'hardcore sceptic' fell for the most debunked woo on the market, astrology. :scratch:
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#3  Postby Varangian » Feb 10, 2015 7:41 am

Wonderfeel wrote:I'm happy to receive any requests for how you'd like a spiritual person to be... : )

Skeptical.

And welcome, BTW.
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#4  Postby TopCat » Feb 10, 2015 7:49 am

Wonderfeel wrote:I'm happy to receive any requests for how you'd like a spiritual person to be... : )

Thoroughly informed about Confirmation Bias.

Welcome :cheers:
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#5  Postby Onyx8 » Feb 10, 2015 7:52 am

Welcome aboard. Please define 'spiritual'.
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#6  Postby mattthomas » Feb 10, 2015 8:50 am

I'm with Scarlett, hardcore skeptic to woo loving spiritualist is a bit of a leap. Akin to an astronaut becoming a flat-earther. If we're dealing with bullshit from the starting gate I don't hold high hopes here.
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#7  Postby chairman bill » Feb 10, 2015 8:54 am

What's the 'personal evolution' nonsense?

Anyway, welcome to RatSkep
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#8  Postby Wonderfeel » Feb 10, 2015 9:10 am

Hi @Scarlett, astrology nailed me, it (in my opinion) unequivocally called me own my own dysfunctionality, it was my pre-natal eclipses as described in 'Spiritual Astrology', and my lunar nodes as described in 'Karmic Astrology'. They just freakin' nailed me!

Thanks @Varangian, Thanks, skepticism it great for the value of clear-headedness, and perhaps innocence is keey to openness...
I was thinking about how occaisionally I hear weird scratching noises outside, and my skeptical self might say it's nothing, but my innocent self will get me to go have a look, and I might see an echidna moseying along. If I were purely or emphatically skeptical I might have missed seing him/her. So I feel to balance healthy skepticism with being open to experience...

Yes @TopCat, Confirmation Bias is a doosie! I respect the scientific method, and I realise C.B. is a nuanced/binkered block to facing reality. Perhaps it is driven by a deeper insecurity about what one is accepting? I will personally endeavour to remain cool headed in my observing, ta.

: ) @Onyx8 your footer is powerful - like with confirmation bias, I feel insecurities can drive proselytising. You know in Lao it is illegal to proselytise, cool hey!
One I really liked was a bloke who said 'spirituality means space'. I even suppose the trickiness of defining 'spiritual' suggests it's essence is unable to be pinned down, so beware anyone who tries!
.....but I will have a crack:
'Spiritual' means open to feeling mystery, especially to the feeling of some large force that is weaving between all living things....

hey @mattthomas, have you heard the one about Buzz Aldrin and crew seeing those weird lighty things? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI Weirdness/unpredictability can strike from any angle, and the relevance of what I was reading was what opened my mind.

Hi @chairman bill, I mean it as in evolution within one's lifetime (more personal than species evolution). An example would be coming to be responsible with anger.
Last edited by Wonderfeel on Feb 10, 2015 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#9  Postby mattthomas » Feb 10, 2015 9:22 am

Wonderfeel wrote:Hi @Scarlett, astrology nailed me, it (in my opinion) unequivocally called me own my own dysfunctionality, it was my pre-natal eclipses as described in 'Spiritual Astrology', and my lunar nodes as described in 'Karmic Astrology'. They just freakin' nailed me!

Ever heard of the Forer effect, also known as the Barnum effect?
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#10  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 10, 2015 9:24 am

Welcome!

Scarlett wrote:Hi, from a person who doesn't have a spiritual bone in her body!

I'm finding myself sceptical about how a 'hardcore sceptic' fell for the most debunked woo on the market, astrology. :scratch:

:this:
Has the OP explored both avenues of open mindedness and read some books debunking astrology?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#11  Postby Mazille » Feb 10, 2015 9:36 am

Well, hi there.

Is that that "I used to be an atheist"-shtick, only for astrology? I'm sure you'll soon tell us that you now consider your old, sceptical self to have been cynical, purposeless and/or unpleasant, yes?
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#12  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 10, 2015 10:11 am

Only a single posting :think: :whistle:
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#13  Postby Wonderfeel » Feb 10, 2015 10:13 am

so Confirmation Bias is already beleiving something and wrangling input to affirm it, Forer Effect is either being suggestable to someone's authority or finding personal resonance with general information. I like how the original statements used in the Forer test were often about the inner state vs. the outer state, that is where people may be yearning for empathy/recognition of their unexpreessed self...
thanks @mattthomas

@Thomas Eshuls, not sure what OP is, hopefully it's nice! I do question the whole paradigm from time to time and even imagine astrology may be a way to embrace potent psychological teachings without the baggage of a therapist. I have recognised a few people's star signs without previous knowledge, just them reminding me of people I know with that sign.
I feel there's a bottom line of wether or not we beleive in Synchronicity. I do.

@Mazille, my younger sceptical self was intensely purposeful, I was a 2/47 activist. But yeah I can report I was also unpleasant sometimes when I was derogatory toward spirtual people. And yes the cynicism was an issue too, it can leave us focussing on negativity and residing in a smugness. If I think some one is full of it, it still probably isn't my place to deride them, asking questions that open their mind can be good.

@Scot Dutchy, I have just arrived here, but if there's some protocol I'm not aware of please let me know...
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#14  Postby Fallible » Feb 10, 2015 10:38 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Only a single posting :think: :whistle:


It wasn't even a single posting when you made this post.
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#15  Postby Scarlett » Feb 10, 2015 10:42 am

Fallible wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Only a single posting :think: :whistle:


It wasn't even a single posting when you made this post.


And the guy had only arrived 3 hrs prior to that. :lol:
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#16  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 10, 2015 10:58 am

Wonderfeel wrote:
@Thomas Eshuls, not sure what OP is,

Original Post or Original Poster.
The post or person that started a particular thread.

Wonderfeel wrote:I do question the whole paradigm from time to time and even imagine astrology may be a way to embrace potent psychological teachings without the baggage of a therapist. I have recognised a few people's star signs without previous knowledge, just them reminding me of people I know with that sign.

You haven't answered my question.
Have you read a couple of books that debunk astrology?

Wonderfeel wrote:I feel there's a bottom line of wether or not we beleive in Synchronicity. I do.

I'd rather do facts than belief.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#17  Postby Scarlett » Feb 10, 2015 11:04 am

Wonderfeel wrote:Hi @Scarlett, astrology nailed me, it (in my opinion) unequivocally called me own my own dysfunctionality, it was my pre-natal eclipses as described in 'Spiritual Astrology', and my lunar nodes as described in 'Karmic Astrology'. They just freakin' nailed me!

Thanks @Varangian, Thanks, skepticism it great for the value of clear-headedness, and perhaps innocence is keey to openness...
I was thinking about how occaisionally I hear weird scratching noises outside, and my skeptical self might say it's nothing, but my innocent self will get me to go have a look, and I might see an echidna moseying along. If I were purely or emphatically skeptical I might have missed seing him/her. So I feel to balance healthy skepticism with being open to experience...

Yes @TopCat, Confirmation Bias is a doosie! I respect the scientific method, and I realise C.B. is a nuanced/binkered block to facing reality. Perhaps it is driven by a deeper insecurity about what one is accepting? I will personally endeavour to remain cool headed in my observing, ta.

: ) @Onyx8 your footer is powerful - like with confirmation bias, I feel insecurities can drive proselytising. You know in Lao it is illegal to proselytise, cool hey!
One I really liked was a bloke who said 'spirituality means space'. I even suppose the trickiness of defining 'spiritual' suggests it's essence is unable to be pinned down, so beware anyone who tries!
.....but I will have a crack:
'Spiritual' means open to feeling mystery, especially to the the feeling of some large force that is weaving between all living things....

hey @mattthomas, have you heard the one about Buzz Aldrin and crew seeing those weird lighty things? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI Weirdness/unpredictability can strike from any angle, and the relevance of what I was reading was what opened my mind.

Hi @chairman bill, I mean it as in evolution within one's lifetime (more personal than species evolution). An example would be coming to be responsible with anger.


Excuse me if I remain sceptical.

But :wave: nonetheless.
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#18  Postby monkeyboy » Feb 10, 2015 11:06 am

Welcome along.

Astrology huh?

I was born around 1/4 mile away from a kid I went to school with, same day, 4hrs apart. So we grew up together, started school same day, same class. Are we totally linked astrologically? I mean apart from being twins or something, we couldn't have been much closer if we tried. So, should we share the same journey through life because of our birth time and place? Or does me being born just after breakfast and him just after much make all the difference?
I'm genuinely interested to know.
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#19  Postby Wonderfeel » Feb 10, 2015 11:13 am

@Fallible, @Scarlett: Oh jeepers, that feels a bit harsh. I wanted to hear some ideas from this community. So I signed up, found the section for new members to introduce themselves and then posted...

This feels like derisiveness, the sort of thing that can give skeptics a bad name. If there's something you have issue with, play the ball (not the player!)

@Thomas Eshuls, no I haven't read a book debunking astrology, have watched a fair bit of Richard Dawkins but found him too unscientific because he's closed-minded. I was particularly interested in Alain de Botton's work 'Religion for Athiests'.
Have you ever read about your lunar nodes? (that is a sincere question coming from me)

@Scarett #2 of course, I don't imagine anyone here is looking for a spiritual fix for anything. I like to be in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar ideas, like here!

I value the way scepticism can take on spirituality that is disempowering. Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

@monkeyboy probably 90%+ of your chart would be the same as his. So you would be predicted by astrology to have very similar attributes, tendencies, personality traits. It doesn't control how you will live your life, to me it's just synchronicty between you popping into the world and what the heavens were saying at that time. Ascendant sign (how you first appear to unfamiliar people) would definitely be different, and the angles between of the moon would have shifted to other planets. My best mate at high school was like that with me too, maybe we were similar and clicked.
Last edited by Wonderfeel on Feb 10, 2015 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hello Skeptics from a Spiritual Person!

#20  Postby chairman bill » Feb 10, 2015 11:15 am

Ignore Scot. Several times I've seen him pounce on someone's first post, with some insinuation that as they've only posted once, they must be a troll/sockpuppet/something-known-only-to-Scot. It's a rational move by him. No really. He's a typical whatever his star sign is. Allegedly.
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