Some of them are Christian Reformed, some are Baptist and a few others are Pentecostal.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

I'm a devout Christian.

Except obviously when it comes to Matthew 19:21, or are you borrowing someone else's computer?

Ecc 5:19
1 John 3:17
Luke 18:25-27

This is probably not the thread but I felt compelled to point out that that the three passages you provided don't give a reason to ignore Matthew 19:21. Is it just that you have no wish to be perfect, at least not so perfect you have to do without a computer?
I mean, it makes perfect sense that you would prefer to hang on to your stuff if you didn't really believe in your religion, it makes sense if you just think you ought to believe, you want to believe. If you actually really believed that jesus is god, surely you would unhesitatingly give away your stuff? It's just stuff, right? That's nothing to the consequences of disobeying the most powerful being in the universe, right?

Maybe you can ignore your god until you die, then just apologise for not even bothering to try and it's all good? Is that it?

You don't need to respond, this is just an intro thread after all.

Welcome aboard btw

trubble76 wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:

I'm a devout Christian.

Except obviously when it comes to Matthew 19:21, or are you borrowing someone else's computer?

Ecc 5:19
1 John 3:17
Luke 18:25-27

This is probably not the thread but I felt compelled to point out that that the three passages you provided don't give a reason to ignore Matthew 19:21. Is it just that you have no wish to be perfect, at least not so perfect you have to do without a computer?
I mean, it makes perfect sense that you would prefer to hang on to your stuff if you didn't really believe in your religion, it makes sense if you just think you ought to believe, you want to believe. If you actually really believed that jesus is god, surely you would unhesitatingly give away your stuff? It's just stuff, right? That's nothing to the consequences of disobeying the most powerful being in the universe, right?

I don't ignore Mat 19:21. Did you not read the verses I posted?

Maybe you can ignore your god until you die, then just apologise for not even bothering to try and it's all good? Is that it?

No.

Welcome aboard btw

Thanks.

OrdinaryClay wrote:I don't ignore Mat 19:21.

...except for the part where Jesus instructs his followers to sell their possessions.

Did you not read the verses I posted?

I did, and like Trubble, I don't see that they negate Jesus instruction that you sell your possessions. Perhaps you could explain how?

Also like Trubble, I realise this welcome thread is not the place to get into holding devout Christians to their word. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread to discuss the loopholes in the Bible which you think enable you to follow Jesus while disregarding his direct and unequivocal advice to sell your stuff?

Welcome aboard!

CookieJon wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:I don't ignore Mat 19:21.

...except for the part where Jesus instructs his followers to sell their possessions.

Apparently you ignored the verses I posted.

Did you not read the verses I posted?

I did, and like Trubble, I don't see that they negate Jesus instruction that you sell your possessions. Perhaps you could explain how?

I never said they negate Christ's teachings. The word of God is a complete whole. Which part of Ecc 5:19 did you not understand? It seems very clear and unequivocal to me.

Also like Trubble, I realise this welcome thread is not the place to get into holding devout Christians to their word. Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread to discuss the loopholes in the Bible which you think enable you to follow Jesus while disregarding his direct and unequivocal advice to sell your stuff?

I'm not the one who brought it up. I simply stated my belief in Christ so people know from the get-go where I stand.

Welcome aboard!

You already welcomed me, but thanks again.

I thought your name was familiar. Welcome.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

CookieJon wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:I don't ignore Mat 19:21.

...except for the part where Jesus instructs his followers to sell their possessions.

Apparently you ignored the verses I posted.

No.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

Cookie wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:Did you not read the verses I posted?

I did, and like Trubble, I don't see that they negate Jesus instruction that you sell your possessions. Perhaps you could explain how?

I never said they negate Christ's teachings. The word of God is a complete whole. Which part of Ecc 5:19 did you not understand? It seems very clear and unequivocal to me.

Oh I understood it. Are you saying God gave you a PC?

Why, what part of Mat 19:21 did you not understand? That seems very clear and unequivocal to me.

I think what's happened here is that two parts of the Bible contradict each other, and you've opted to go with the OLD TESTAMENT instead of heeding the advice given directly by Christ, which is a funny choice for a Christian. Do you follow all the OT laws, or just the ones that contradict the aspects of Christ's advice that don't appeal to you?

Hi OrdinaryClay, glad you're here. Have some popcorn on the house.

(Uncle Orph'sTM popcorn - "the friendly snack" )

Welcome OrdinaryClay.

CookieJon wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:

CookieJon wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:
Ecc 5:19
1 John 3:17
Luke 18:25-27

Well 3 out of 4 ain't bad. 75% devout then.

Rom 3:10

I agree, there's not much point in trying harder... Like I said, 75% ain't bad!

Consider yourself smited/smitten/smwitted?

CookieJon wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:

CookieJon wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:I don't ignore Mat 19:21.

...except for the part where Jesus instructs his followers to sell their possessions.

Apparently you ignored the verses I posted.

No.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

Cookie wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:Did you not read the verses I posted?

I did, and like Trubble, I don't see that they negate Jesus instruction that you sell your possessions. Perhaps you could explain how?

I never said they negate Christ's teachings. The word of God is a complete whole. Which part of Ecc 5:19 did you not understand? It seems very clear and unequivocal to me.

Oh I understood it. Are you saying God gave you a PC?

Why, what part of Mat 19:21 did you not understand? That seems very clear and unequivocal to me.

I think what's happened here is that two parts of the Bible contradict each other, and you've opted to go with the OLD TESTAMENT instead of heeding the advice given directly by Christ, which is a funny choice for a Christian. Do you follow all the OT laws, or just the ones that contradict the aspects of Christ's advice that don't appeal to you?

Well I did not ignore Mat 19:21 either.

Ah, so your beef has nothing to do with whether I'm abiding by the will of God. Your problem is you cannot understand the coincident of verses. You should have said that instead of wandering around the point.

You have no idea what I've opted to do because you have no idea what I own, give, or do(other than some number of posts on the Internet) or virtually anything else about me, but that said I do own a house, computer and truck - no watch or any other jewelry or tattoos for that mater. But the details of what I own are not really relevant since the word of God does not teach that wealth is a sin. The love of money is the root of evil, not money itself. It is a sin to disobey the will of God. His will is to give to the poor and not allow anything in this world to intervene between you and Him.

If you were aware of the Bible you would be aware that God greatly used the rich, powerful and "famous" just as He has used the poor and lowly. David and Joseph are examples of the former. There is no contradicting because it is perfectly logical to allow for both cases given we are all different people. For some "things, goodies and toys" hold them captive and they think of nothing else hence separating them from God. Some are good stewards with wealth, as Christ taught. If none of God's people had any wealth who would give to the poor. Certainly not the jaded masses.

You've set up a false choice to justify your preconceived notions.

Regarding the Old Testament, I fail to see your point. Ecc 5:19 is not a law it is a teaching. My case holds with New Testament teachings as well, again it is your false choice that prevents you from seeing the truth. That said, I treasure the entire Bible front to back.

edit: spelling

orpheus wrote:Hi OrdinaryClay, glad you're here. Have some popcorn on the house.

(Uncle Orph'sTM popcorn - "the friendly snack" )

Hi! Who is the guy in your avatar? I recognize him but I cannot place him.

Lion IRC wrote:Welcome OrdinaryClay.

Hi Lion IRC!

OrdinaryClay wrote:

orpheus wrote:Hi OrdinaryClay, glad you're here. Have some popcorn on the house.

(Uncle Orph'sTM popcorn - "the friendly snack" )

Hi! Who is the guy in your avatar? I recognize him but I cannot place him.

Al Lewis in his older years. In his younger years he played Grandpa on The "Munsters".

orpheus wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:

orpheus wrote:Hi OrdinaryClay, glad you're here. Have some popcorn on the house.

(Uncle Orph'sTM popcorn - "the friendly snack" )

Hi! Who is the guy in your avatar? I recognize him but I cannot place him.

Al Lewis in his older years. In his younger years he played Grandpa on The "Munsters".

Ya, that's it! You a fan, or do you just like his hair?

OrdinaryClay wrote:

CookieJon wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:

CookieJon wrote:
...except for the part where Jesus instructs his followers to sell their possessions.

Apparently you ignored the verses I posted.

No.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

Cookie wrote:
I did, and like Trubble, I don't see that they negate Jesus instruction that you sell your possessions. Perhaps you could explain how?

I never said they negate Christ's teachings. The word of God is a complete whole. Which part of Ecc 5:19 did you not understand? It seems very clear and unequivocal to me.

Oh I understood it. Are you saying God gave you a PC?

Why, what part of Mat 19:21 did you not understand? That seems very clear and unequivocal to me.

I think what's happened here is that two parts of the Bible contradict each other, and you've opted to go with the OLD TESTAMENT instead of heeding the advice given directly by Christ, which is a funny choice for a Christian. Do you follow all the OT laws, or just the ones that contradict the aspects of Christ's advice that don't appeal to you?

Well I did not ignore Mat 19:21 either.

Mat 19:21 has Jesus instructing his followers to sell their possessions.

You are a follower of Jesus who has not sold their possessions.

Forgive me for being obtuse, but what part of Mat 19:21 do you think you're not ignoring?

Ah, so your beef has nothing to do with whether I'm abiding by the will of God. Your problem is you cannot understand the coincident of verses. You should have said that instead of wandering around the point.

No, my point is that Christians cherry-pick (which I thought was obvious, sorry for not spelling it out as clearly as Jesus did when he told you to sell your possessions)

You have no idea what I've opted to do because you have no idea what I own , give, or do(other than some number of posts on the Internet) or virtually anything else about me, but that said I do own a house, computer and truck - no watch or any other jewelry or tattoos for that mater. But the details of what I own are not really relevant since the word of God does not teach that wealth is a sin.

You've set up a false choice to justify your preconceived notions.

I have no preconceived notions about your religion (and mine too, btw). I'm just repeating what Jesus purportedly said. If you don't like his advice, then take it up with him - don't shoot the messenger!

I think you've set up a false choice to justify your decision to keep your all stuff despite Jesus' instruction to sell it.

Regarding the Old Testament, I fail to see your point. Ecc 5:19 is not a law it is a teaching. My case holds with New Testament teachings as well, again it is your false choice that prevents you from seeing the truth. That said, I treasure the entire Bible front to back.

...except for Mat 19:21.

OrdinaryClay wrote:

orpheus wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:

orpheus wrote:Hi OrdinaryClay, glad you're here. Have some popcorn on the house.

(Uncle Orph'sTM popcorn - "the friendly snack" )

Hi! Who is the guy in your avatar? I recognize him but I cannot place him.

Al Lewis in his older years. In his younger years he played Grandpa on The "Munsters".

Ya, that's it! You a fan, or do you just like his hair?

I liked both them and his hair - but neither to any extravagant extent. But over at Ratz (rationalia.com) there was a thread asking which was better - the Addams Family or The Munsters. I said that although the Addams Family was in many ways the better show, you just can't beat Al Lewis. From there it seemed natural to just go for it avatar-wise.

OrdinaryClay wrote: That said, I treasure the entire Bible front to back.

That's quite a startling claim. I don't know of any Christians who have read the entire Bible and endorsed it 100%. In my experience, they all seem to hand wave away the repugnant bits with a "Jesus changed all this", ignore the contradictory bits and cherry pick the nice bits (or some of the bad bits it it suits their agenda).

It suprises me that you've apparently comfortable with stories like god sending bears to shred children for the crime of calling a man "baldy", or lines like in Psalm 137 which talks about being joyous when dashing babies against the rocks. I'm not sure how a person can endorse the selling of children into slavery, or agree with a virgin girl being forced to marry her rapist (or be stoned to death if she didn't fight back enough or wasn't a virgin). I take it you don't work on Sundays, wear mixed fabrics or trim your facial hair ? You're against female teachers, eating of prawns and gays ? Women are silent in your church and submissive to their husbands ?

Durro wrote:It suprises me that you've apparently comfortable with stories like god sending bears to shred children for the crime of calling a man "baldy" [etc.]

Not just "comfortable with", Durro...

I believe Clay said he "treasures" the stories children being mauled, stoned or sold into slavery, etc.

CookieJon wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:

CookieJon wrote:

OrdinaryClay wrote:
Apparently you ignored the verses I posted.

No.

OrdinaryClay wrote:
I never said they negate Christ's teachings. The word of God is a complete whole. Which part of Ecc 5:19 did you not understand? It seems very clear and unequivocal to me.

Oh I understood it. Are you saying God gave you a PC?

Why, what part of Mat 19:21 did you not understand? That seems very clear and unequivocal to me.

I think what's happened here is that two parts of the Bible contradict each other, and you've opted to go with the OLD TESTAMENT instead of heeding the advice given directly by Christ, which is a funny choice for a Christian. Do you follow all the OT laws, or just the ones that contradict the aspects of Christ's advice that don't appeal to you?

Well I did not ignore Mat 19:21 either.

Mat 19:21 has Jesus instructing his followers to sell their possessions.

You are a follower of Jesus who has not sold their possessions.

Forgive me for being obtuse, but what part of Mat 19:21 do you think you're not ignoring?

(Mat 19:20) The young man *said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?"

You did not seem to read the verse in context. He told the young man to sell his possessions. I don't ignore any of the verse.

Ah, so your beef has nothing to do with whether I'm abiding by the will of God. Your problem is you cannot understand the coincident of verses. You should have said that instead of wandering around the point.

No, my point is that Christians cherry-pick (which I thought was obvious, sorry for not spelling it out as clearly as Jesus did when he told you to sell your possessions)

It appears you are the one cherry picking. I'm the one reading the entire Bible. Seems obvious to me.'

You have no idea what I've opted to do because you have no idea what I own , give, or do(other than some number of posts on the Internet) or virtually anything else about me, but that said I do own a house, computer and truck - no watch or any other jewelry or tattoos for that mater. But the details of what I own are not really relevant since the word of God does not teach that wealth is a sin.

Ya, tattoos bug me, what can I say.

You've set up a false choice to justify your preconceived notions.

I have no preconceived notions about your religion (and mine too, btw). I'm just repeating what Jesus purportedly said. If you don't like his advice, then take it up with him - don't shoot the messenger!
I think you've set up a false choice to justify your decision to keep your all stuff despite Jesus' instruction to sell it.

??? What are the branches of my false choice? You have no idea how much stuff I keep.

Regarding the Old Testament, I fail to see your point. Ecc 5:19 is not a law it is a teaching. My case holds with New Testament teachings as well, again it is your false choice that prevents you from seeing the truth. That said, I treasure the entire Bible front to back.

...except for Mat 19:21.

Oh, I love Mat 19:21 and Ecc 5:19, etc ...