Hi all

Hello and welcome to RatSkep! :smile: Why don't you introduce yourself here? ;)

Moderators: kiore, The_Metatron, Blip

Re: Hi all

#61  Postby tinekoyd » Sep 15, 2013 10:08 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Mythology has no place in a modern society. Its place is in books jut to be read as an interesting part of our history but further than that it has no importance.

I am sorry that you Nora require to use ancient terms to describe any human condition as there are plenty of modern more correct terms to replace them.


Mythology has always been useful to civilizations, and I see no reason why that should not still be the case. Indeed you could illustrate almost anything through mythology, parable, and so on. Even the nonexistence of a deity. Anything. It's silly to think that just because the vehicle for knowledge or wisdom is based on fiction that the message isn't valid or true. It seems to me like a kind of pigheaded conflation of one thing with another.
User avatar
tinekoyd
Banned Sockpuppet
 
Posts: 10

Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#62  Postby Horwood Beer-Master » Sep 15, 2013 11:55 am

Calilasseia wrote:...I gather the history of the Quaker movement includes instances of people seeking to do precisely that. See, for example, Josiah Wedgwood, who was a prominent anti-slavery campaigner, and as part of his efforts to see slavery abolished, he produced this famous artwork:

Image...


I thought Wedgwood himself was a Unitarian? Possibly whoever came-up with the actual design he used may have been a Quaker (certainly Wedgwood knew many Quakers in the anti-slavery movement).
Also available on Rationalia

Image
User avatar
Horwood Beer-Master
 
Name: Ian
Posts: 2186
Age: 40

Country: England
England (eng)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#63  Postby Quaker » Sep 15, 2013 1:46 pm

Thanks all for the many welcomes.

Can I just chip in on 'myth'. I think what makes mythology relevant to today is that the past event(s) of which the myth speaks are applicable to us today. Those past events may well have some basis in factual events, or may be more purely allegorical. While arguing about how much is factually correct or not we may well be missing what can be learned from the myth. There is a risk today of an arrogance that we know so much more than our ancestors (pretty like each generation thinking that it has discovered sex). We may dismiss mythology too lightly these days, I think. In dismissing mythology we may suffer loss of two kinds. The first is that we may miss some important insights our ancestors had which they have communicated in the universal format of a narrative. The second loss is one of heritage; we may lose connections to our past. That seems a sad loss by itself, but it also carries the danger that if we feel unconnected to the past, we may make the same mistakes as them. If we are connected to the past then we 'inherit' the mistakes of the past, even if they are dreadful ones. They become part of our history. While it is always nice to think we can start with a clean slate and create a nice new fresh better world devoid of the 'sins' of the past, the reality is that we'll probably make a better fist of things if we have a social memory of past wrong-doings. The myths and stories of the past (some factual, some 'embellished' for pedagogical purposes) are a valuable inheritance from our ancestors; it would be a great shame if we dismissed them lightly and failed to pass them on to the next generation. I get the impression the Jewish nation understands the power of narratives more than modern Western culture does. Those narratives are part of their social glue and underpin their social order (including the fantastic devotion to one day a week where families come together to share in that narrative of the ages).
User avatar
Quaker
Banned Sockpuppet
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 53

Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#64  Postby Aern Rakesh » Sep 15, 2013 3:11 pm

:this: I've just discovered that you can't 'like' posts in the Welcome thread, or I would have liked it.

Two things. I don't know where you live Quaker, but if you live in Britain I have the feeling you've been watching Simon Shama's The Story of the Jews, which illustrates exactly this.

I feel very strongly about my right to draw on my Judeo/Christian mythic heritage, and have a short story (based on Miriam's story in the OT) which exemplifies this. If you are interested in reading it (I think it's 7 pages) let me know in a PM with an email address and I'll send it to you.
Image
User avatar
Aern Rakesh
RS Donator
 
Posts: 13582
Age: 72
Female

Country: UK (London)
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#65  Postby orpheus » Sep 15, 2013 3:28 pm

Nora_Leonard wrote::this: I've just discovered that you can't 'like' posts in the Welcome thread, or I would have liked it.

Two things. I don't know where you live Quaker, but if you live in Britain I have the feeling you've been watching Simon Shama's The Story of the Jews, which illustrates exactly this.

I feel very strongly about my right to draw on my Judeo/Christian mythic heritage, and have a short story (based on Miriam's story in the OT) which exemplifies this. If you are interested in reading it (I think it's 7 pages) let me know in a PM with an email address and I'll send it to you.


From me, re the uses of myth, it's yes.

My screen name isn't an accident. I find the Orpheus myth (what tiny fragments we actually know) to be incredibly penetrating observations of precisely what music is and can do. Also what it means (or can mean) to be a musician. Very powerful and useful metaphors contained there. The modern retellings by Russell Hoban (particularly in his novels Kleinzeit and The Medusa Frequency as well as his essays in The Moment Under The Moment) have been particularly thought-provoking, moving, and useful. It's something of an obsession for the composer Harrison Birtwistle too, and he's had a big influence on me - especially his thoughts about inventing music, which come directly from his work on the Orpheus myth.

(Hermes too I find powerful and useful; the relationship between the two is something I've been thinking about for quite a while, and it's also helped me a lot.)
“A way a lone a last a loved a long the”

—James Joyce
User avatar
orpheus
 
Posts: 7274
Age: 56
Male

Country: New York, USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#66  Postby Fallible » Sep 15, 2013 3:53 pm

I've got so much from fiction, which is basically what myth is, I can't begin to count the ways. It's nothing short of ridiculous to claim it has no purpose or value.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#67  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 15, 2013 3:57 pm

Fallible wrote:I've got so much from fiction, which is basically what myth is, I can't begin to count the ways. It's nothing short of ridiculous to claim it has no purpose or value.



Myth fiction FFS :lol:

Heard everything Fall. Take a gold star.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 72
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#68  Postby Fallible » Sep 15, 2013 3:58 pm

Tuesday, I think.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#69  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 15, 2013 4:03 pm

Do people worship fiction?
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 72
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#70  Postby Blip » Sep 15, 2013 4:04 pm

I should have thought that myths are just stories that have stood the test of time. There may be a reason for that. ETA that I agree with this post from Quaker.

For an interesting discussion on fiction and reportage, try Life of Pi.
Evolving wrote:Blip, intrepid pilot of light aircraft and wrangler with alligators.
User avatar
Blip
Moderator
 
Posts: 21068
Female

Country: This septic isle...
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#71  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 15, 2013 4:05 pm

Blip wrote:I should have thought that myths are just stories that have stood the test of time. There may be a reason for that.

For an interesting discussion on fiction and reportage, try Life of Pi.


What test is that? Love to know.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 72
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#72  Postby Fallible » Sep 15, 2013 4:06 pm

Time, Scot. The answer's in the initial comment.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#73  Postby Blip » Sep 15, 2013 4:10 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Blip wrote:I should have thought that myths are just stories that have stood the test of time. There may be a reason for that.

For an interesting discussion on fiction and reportage, try Life of Pi.


What test is that? Love to know.


Have you read Life of Pi? It says it all, really.
Evolving wrote:Blip, intrepid pilot of light aircraft and wrangler with alligators.
User avatar
Blip
Moderator
 
Posts: 21068
Female

Country: This septic isle...
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#74  Postby orpheus » Sep 15, 2013 4:21 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Do people worship fiction?


No need to worship something to find value in it - even life-changing value, on an ongoing basis. Hitch's statements about the Parthenon come to mind as a good explanation of this point.
“A way a lone a last a loved a long the”

—James Joyce
User avatar
orpheus
 
Posts: 7274
Age: 56
Male

Country: New York, USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#75  Postby nunnington » Sep 15, 2013 4:31 pm

I think you can celebrate myth, without worshiping. An example for me is 'Hamlet' which has provided me with a lot of different ideas and meanings and texts, which are valuable. So when I watched Tennant's version, I felt exuberant.
je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho.
nunnington
 
Posts: 3980

Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#76  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 15, 2013 4:34 pm

Celebrating Santa Clause is celebrating a myth but it does not make it fact or have any truth.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 72
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#77  Postby Nostalgia » Sep 15, 2013 4:36 pm

Welcome to the forum Quaker!

I don't really go in for the whole "Christian" thing. But you Quakers are all right with me. ;) :thumbup:

I hope you stick around as I'm sure you'll be a great addition to the forum. Variety being the spice of life and all that.
We are alive, so the universe must be said to be alive. We are its consciousness as well as our own. We rise out of the cosmos and see its mesh of patterns, and it strikes us as beautiful. And that feeling is the most important thing in all the universe.
User avatar
Nostalgia
 
Posts: 9266
Age: 36
Male

Country: Earth
Scotland (ss)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#78  Postby nunnington » Sep 15, 2013 4:53 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Celebrating Santa Clause is celebrating a myth but it does not make it fact or have any truth.


It's fun, though!
je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho.
nunnington
 
Posts: 3980

Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#79  Postby iamthereforeithink » Sep 15, 2013 5:03 pm

Fables, myths and parables are a time tested method of imparting wisdom. And most people with more than 2 functioning brain cells understand that these are intended to be allegorical/ metaphorical and not statements of fact. When people mistake myths for factual accounts, that's when we have a problem.
“The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
User avatar
iamthereforeithink
 
Posts: 3332
Age: 11
Male

Country: USA/ EU
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Hi all

#80  Postby hackenslash » Sep 15, 2013 5:09 pm

Quaker wrote:There is a risk today of an arrogance that we know so much more than our ancestors


That's not arrogance, because we DO know much more than our ancestors, so this is horseshit for a start. Modern science has elucidated principles that even the greatest minds of the past, let alone the authors of swathes of turgid mythology, were incapable of even fantasising about, as my colleague the famous azure lepidopter is fond of pointing out.

There's no knowledge to be found in mythology, except knowledge concerning the utterly fucking stupid things people will believe given half a chance and insufficient bullshit filters to deal with it.

Edit: Substitution for a better scan.
Last edited by hackenslash on Sep 15, 2013 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
hackenslash
 
Name: The Other Sweary One
Posts: 21914
Age: 52
Male

Country: Republic of Mancunia
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Welcome New Members

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest