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Hi all

#1  Postby Quaker » Sep 14, 2013 8:53 am

Just to say 'hello'

I'm interested in all ways people make sense of the universe, their lives, suffering, joy, etc,. from Atheism to Zoroastrianism. I have explored a few along my way and currently have a home in Quakerism because of its acceptance that we all need to find our own paths which may be highly spiritual or not, but that what matters most are the values we adopt in daily life.
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Re: Hi all

#2  Postby Briton » Sep 14, 2013 9:05 am

Hi. Welcome to the best forum in this Universe...probably.

What matters most to me is what is true; the fact that something might suit my 'values', Quakerism for example, is irrelevant.
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Re: Hi all

#3  Postby Quaker » Sep 14, 2013 9:20 am

Thank you Briton

Presumably you do think people's values are important as well? Without considering the importance of values it would seem that you'd have no basis for society, laws, social welfare, etc. Or perhaps you consider those values part of a provable truth?

As for whether Quakerism is relevant or not. Most of the time it probably is totally irrelevant to you. It' not a way of life that feels a need to force itself on others, though we do peacefully oppose violence and oppression.
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Re: Hi all

#4  Postby Varangian » Sep 14, 2013 9:54 am

Welcome, Quaker! While I'm an atheist, quakerism appears to be one of the more sympathetic brands of christianity.
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Re: Hi all

#5  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 14, 2013 10:05 am

Hi

Quakerism is for me an anything goes belief system for people who cannot decide.

Sorry no time for it.
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Re: Hi all

#6  Postby tinekoyd » Sep 14, 2013 10:26 am

Quaker wrote:but that what matters most are the values we adopt in daily life.


Agreed.
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Re: Hi all

#7  Postby Aern Rakesh » Sep 14, 2013 10:34 am

Quaker wrote:I'm interested in all ways people make sense of the universe, their lives, suffering, joy, etc,. from Atheism to Zoroastrianism.


So am I. Whereas I don't believe life is intrinsically meaningful, I do believe that humans have the inbuilt ability to experience it as profoundly meaningful—and at other times desperately without meaning. I think what is important, whatever your world view, is to be able to cope with both... Or rather to cope with the dark nights of the soul, because it is usually easy to cope when life is experienced as full of meaning.

Welcome to the forum, Quaker! I do hope you stay long enough to build up enough of a thick skin so you can withstand some of the stuff that is bound to get thrown at you. :cheers:
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Re: Hi all

#8  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 14, 2013 10:37 am

Nora_Leonard wrote:
Quaker wrote:I'm interested in all ways people make sense of the universe, their lives, suffering, joy, etc,. from Atheism to Zoroastrianism.


So am I. Whereas I don't believe life is intrinsically meaningful, I do believe that humans have the inbuilt ability to experience it as profoundly meaningful—and at other times desperately without meaning. I think what is important, whatever your world view, is to be able to cope with both... Or rather to cope with the dark nights of the soul, because it is usually easy to cope when life is experienced as full of meaning.

Welcome to the forum, Quaker! I do hope you stay long enough to build up enough of a thick skin so you can withstand some of the stuff that is bound to get thrown at you. :cheers:


Well if he posts rubbish expect rubbish back.
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Re: Hi all

#9  Postby iamthereforeithink » Sep 14, 2013 10:46 am

Welcome to the forum! Quakerism is something that was probably a good idea in the 1600s. In 2013, not so much, IMO. Currently, there are better methods available to make sense of the Universe. :cheers:
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Re: Hi all

#10  Postby Aern Rakesh » Sep 14, 2013 10:47 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Nora_Leonard wrote:
Quaker wrote:I'm interested in all ways people make sense of the universe, their lives, suffering, joy, etc,. from Atheism to Zoroastrianism.


So am I. Whereas I don't believe life is intrinsically meaningful, I do believe that humans have the inbuilt ability to experience it as profoundly meaningful—and at other times desperately without meaning. I think what is important, whatever your world view, is to be able to cope with both... Or rather to cope with the dark nights of the soul, because it is usually easy to cope when life is experienced as full of meaning.

Welcome to the forum, Quaker! I do hope you stay long enough to build up enough of a thick skin so you can withstand some of the stuff that is bound to get thrown at you. :cheers:


Well if he posts rubbish expect rubbish back.


Does that apply to you as well? :scratch:
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Re: Hi all

#11  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 14, 2013 10:48 am

Nora_Leonard wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Nora_Leonard wrote:
Quaker wrote:I'm interested in all ways people make sense of the universe, their lives, suffering, joy, etc,. from Atheism to Zoroastrianism.


So am I. Whereas I don't believe life is intrinsically meaningful, I do believe that humans have the inbuilt ability to experience it as profoundly meaningful—and at other times desperately without meaning. I think what is important, whatever your world view, is to be able to cope with both... Or rather to cope with the dark nights of the soul, because it is usually easy to cope when life is experienced as full of meaning.

Welcome to the forum, Quaker! I do hope you stay long enough to build up enough of a thick skin so you can withstand some of the stuff that is bound to get thrown at you. :cheers:


Well if he posts rubbish expect rubbish back.


Does that apply to you as well? :scratch:


It applies to all of us.
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Re: Hi all

#12  Postby Briton » Sep 14, 2013 10:52 am

Quaker wrote:Thank you Briton

Presumably you do think people's values are important as well? Without considering the importance of values it would seem that you'd have no basis for society, laws, social welfare, etc. Or perhaps you consider those values part of a provable truth?

As for whether Quakerism is relevant or not. Most of the time it probably is totally irrelevant to you. It' not a way of life that feels a need to force itself on others, though we do peacefully oppose violence and oppression.


Of course values are important but doesn't matter how high the values a particular belief system might have; that would be be irrelevant to me if it's based on myth. Didn't mean Quakerism in particular.
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Re: Hi all

#13  Postby james1v » Sep 14, 2013 11:12 am

Hi! :cheers:

How much do you give to your church?
"When humans yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon". Thomas Paine.
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Re: Hi all

#14  Postby tinekoyd » Sep 14, 2013 11:15 am

Briton wrote:
Quaker wrote:Thank you Briton

Presumably you do think people's values are important as well? Without considering the importance of values it would seem that you'd have no basis for society, laws, social welfare, etc. Or perhaps you consider those values part of a provable truth?

As for whether Quakerism is relevant or not. Most of the time it probably is totally irrelevant to you. It' not a way of life that feels a need to force itself on others, though we do peacefully oppose violence and oppression.


Of course values are important but doesn't matter how high the values a particular belief system might have; that would be be irrelevant to me if it's based on myth. Didn't mean Quakerism in particular.


If someone is taught a value or virtue, let's say honesty, and the way that they're taught is through a myth, does that make it any less valid? Who cares where you get your values from, as long as you get some. Too many people these days lack basic values.
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Re: Hi all

#15  Postby Aern Rakesh » Sep 14, 2013 11:16 am

tinekoyd wrote:
Briton wrote:
Quaker wrote:Thank you Briton

Presumably you do think people's values are important as well? Without considering the importance of values it would seem that you'd have no basis for society, laws, social welfare, etc. Or perhaps you consider those values part of a provable truth?

As for whether Quakerism is relevant or not. Most of the time it probably is totally irrelevant to you. It' not a way of life that feels a need to force itself on others, though we do peacefully oppose violence and oppression.


Of course values are important but doesn't matter how high the values a particular belief system might have; that would be be irrelevant to me if it's based on myth. Didn't mean Quakerism in particular.


If someone is taught a value or virtue, let's say honesty, and the way that they're taught is through a myth, does that make it any less valid? Who cares where you get your values from, as long as you get some. Too many people these days lack basic values.


:this:

One of the reasons so many people loved Buffy the Vampire Slayer was because of its strong values of loyalty and friendship and endurance. Nobody expected any of us to believe in vampires.

ETA: what I meant to say was that many modern entertainments that have huge followings and communities are effectively myth-based. Myth is a metaphoric genre that touches us in the same place/way as poetry and music. There are a lot of religious people who are inspired by their myths but don't necessarily take them literally.
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Re: Hi all

#16  Postby Briton » Sep 14, 2013 12:17 pm

Nora_Leonard wrote:
tinekoyd wrote:
Briton wrote:
Quaker wrote:Thank you Briton

Presumably you do think people's values are important as well? Without considering the importance of values it would seem that you'd have no basis for society, laws, social welfare, etc. Or perhaps you consider those values part of a provable truth?

As for whether Quakerism is relevant or not. Most of the time it probably is totally irrelevant to you. It' not a way of life that feels a need to force itself on others, though we do peacefully oppose violence and oppression.


Of course values are important but doesn't matter how high the values a particular belief system might have; that would be be irrelevant to me if it's based on myth. Didn't mean Quakerism in particular.


If someone is taught a value or virtue, let's say honesty, and the way that they're taught is through a myth, does that make it any less valid? Who cares where you get your values from, as long as you get some. Too many people these days lack basic values.


:this:

One of the reasons so many people loved Buffy the Vampire Slayer was because of its strong values of loyalty and friendship and endurance. Nobody expected any of us to believe in vampires.

ETA: what I meant to say was that many modern entertainments that have huge followings and communities are effectively myth-based. Myth is a metaphoric genre that touches us in the same place/way as poetry and music. There are a lot of religious people who are inspired by their myths but don't necessarily take them literally.



That's fine if you don't care whether your beliefs are true.
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Re: Hi all

#17  Postby tinekoyd » Sep 14, 2013 12:19 pm

You're confusing two entirely different things. Where you get your values from, and the values themselves, are different things. You're not seriously suggesting that a myth that teaches good values is worthless, are you?
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Re: Hi all

#18  Postby Briton » Sep 14, 2013 12:20 pm

tinekoyd wrote:
Briton wrote:
Quaker wrote:Thank you Briton

Presumably you do think people's values are important as well? Without considering the importance of values it would seem that you'd have no basis for society, laws, social welfare, etc. Or perhaps you consider those values part of a provable truth?

As for whether Quakerism is relevant or not. Most of the time it probably is totally irrelevant to you. It' not a way of life that feels a need to force itself on others, though we do peacefully oppose violence and oppression.


Of course values are important but doesn't matter how high the values a particular belief system might have; that would be be irrelevant to me if it's based on myth. Didn't mean Quakerism in particular.


If someone is taught a value or virtue, let's say honesty, and the way that they're taught is through a myth, does that make it any less valid? Who cares where you get your values from, as long as you get some. Too many people these days lack basic values.


So how do you determine that honesty is of value?
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Re: Hi all

#19  Postby Briton » Sep 14, 2013 12:26 pm

tinekoyd wrote:You're confusing two entirely different things. Where you get your values from, and the values themselves, are different things. You're not seriously suggesting that a myth that teaches good values is worthless, are you?


Ultimately you have to determine what are good values. Myth can't tell you that.
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Re: Hi all

#20  Postby tinekoyd » Sep 14, 2013 1:02 pm

Briton wrote:
tinekoyd wrote:You're confusing two entirely different things. Where you get your values from, and the values themselves, are different things. You're not seriously suggesting that a myth that teaches good values is worthless, are you?


Ultimately you have to determine what are good values. Myth can't tell you that.


I never said that myth can tell you that. You still have to decide for yourself, but I'm saying that a myth can convey and illustrate a good value. Throughout history, stories have been used to pass down good values from generation to generation. That's why I maintain that it matters not where you get your values, as long as you get them somehow. Myth or no myth, makes no difference. The truth or otherwise of the story has nothing to do with the truth or otherwise of the value.
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