Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

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Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#1  Postby Tyrannical » Jun 10, 2010 9:41 am

Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all :what:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/28/afghan-men-struggle-sexual-identity-study-finds/

As if U.S. troops and diplomats didn't have enough to worry about in trying to understand Afghan culture, a new report suggests an entire region in the country is coping with a sexual identity crisis.

An unclassified study from a military research unit in southern Afghanistan details how homosexual behavior is unusually common among men in the large ethnic group known as Pashtuns -- though they seem to be in complete denial about it.

The study, obtained by Fox News, found that Pashtun men commonly have sex with other men, admire other men physically, have sexual relationships with boys and shun women both socially and sexually -- yet they completely reject the label of "homosexual." The research was conducted as part of a longstanding effort to better understand Afghan culture and improve Western interaction with the local people.

The research unit, which was attached to a Marine battalion in southern Afghanistan, acknowledged that the behavior of some Afghan men has left Western forces "frequently confused."


In one instance, a group of local male interpreters had contracted gonorrhea anally but refused to believe they could have contracted it sexually -- "because they were not homosexuals."

Apparently, according to the report, Pashtun men interpret the Islamic prohibition on homosexuality to mean they cannot "love" another man -- but that doesn't mean they can't use men for "sexual gratification."

The group of interpreters who had contracted gonorrhea joked in the camp that they actually got the disease by "mixing green and black tea." But since they refused to heed the medics' warnings, many of them re-contracted the disease after receiving treatment.


The U.S. army medic also told members of the research unit that she and her colleagues had to explain to a local man how to get his wife pregnant.

The report said: "When it was explained to him what was necessary, he reacted with disgust and asked, 'How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean, when one could be with a man, who is clean? Surely this must be wrong.'"


Some one needs to tell them that sticking you penis up some guys butt is GAY!!!
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#2  Postby Eduard » Jun 10, 2010 9:47 am

Oh gods, this is frekkin bizarre.

The report said: "When it was explained to him what was necessary, he reacted with disgust and asked, 'How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean, when one could be with a man, who is clean? Surely this must be wrong.'"



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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#3  Postby lordshipmayhem » Jun 10, 2010 10:50 am

Eduard wrote:Oh gods, this is frekkin bizarre.

The report said: "When it was explained to him what was necessary, he reacted with disgust and asked, 'How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean, when one could be with a man, who is clean? Surely this must be wrong.'"



Story of my life :lol:

He probably said that because Shirley told him. Now if a MAN had told him... :naughty2:

An entire culture in need of sex education... an agrarian culture... the mind boggles. Lookit the goats, man, lookit the goats!! :crazy:
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#4  Postby Eryemil » Jun 10, 2010 11:26 am

Of all the warped and twisted things...

What exactly does this have to do with homophobia? There are homophobic homosexuals, which these could very well be, if they are in fact gay at all.

They could be feigning sexual interest in other men because it is considered the right thing to do in their culture in the same way that homosexuals in the west often pretend an attraction to females in order to fit in.
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#5  Postby babel » Jun 10, 2010 11:38 am

Eryemil wrote:
They could be feigning sexual interest in other men because it is considered the right thing to do in their culture in the same way that homosexuals in the west often pretend an attraction to females in order to fit in.
Possibly, but how did it become common in their society in the first place? :ask:
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#6  Postby NineBerry » Jun 10, 2010 11:38 am

Or the whole story could actually be an complete bollocks coming from Fox News
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#7  Postby Eryemil » Jun 10, 2010 11:47 am

NineBerry wrote:Or the whole story could actually be an complete bollocks coming from Fox News


Or that.
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#8  Postby Tyrannical » Jun 10, 2010 11:51 am

Eryemil wrote:
NineBerry wrote:Or the whole story could actually be an complete bollocks coming from Fox News


Or that.


Enjoy the humor........

Now imagine yourself trying to convince them that they are gay.
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#10  Postby Tyrannical » Jun 10, 2010 12:01 pm

Jakov wrote:Wouldn't they die out if the majority of them are gay?


Maybe this more then one wife thing makes sense now :think:
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#11  Postby Eryemil » Jun 10, 2010 12:18 pm

Jakov wrote:Wouldn't they die out if the majority of them are gay?


Sexual orientation is not something one does, it is something one is. The sex of those you actually fuck has no more bearing on your sexuality than the music you listen to has on the color of your skin.

For hundreds of years homosexual men have been avoiding persecution by pretending to be heterosexual. Being gay does not automatically make our sperm infertile; if we put our cocks inside a vagina a baby will pop out of it nine months later.

It is within the realm of possibility that a group of homosexual men would keep women around for reproduction and domestic work while having sex mostly with each other unless they require offspring.


I would be surprised however if these men in the article were more inclined to homosexuality than men anywhere else. That is, a small minority of them would be exclusively homosexual while the majority would be somewhere between exclusively heterosexual and many degrees of bisexuality.

As I wrote above, it is much more likely that those that are indeed attracted to women sexually would deny it due to social pressure. I find this a very funny example of how certain belief systems allow minorities to control the majority instead of the alternative which is much more common.
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#12  Postby -Alice- » Jun 10, 2010 1:58 pm

NineBerry wrote:Or the whole story could actually be an complete bollocks coming from Fox News


:clap:
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#13  Postby Tyrannical » Jun 11, 2010 6:30 am

if we put our cocks inside a vagina


Who told you that? It's all a lie.
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#14  Postby Toontown » Jun 11, 2010 9:47 pm

I'm betting the story is true, on the basis that Pashtuns are far more likely to be sexually jacked up in that precise manner than Fox is to be lying about it.

The Pashtun funny-boys' position is sensible, given their crazy premises, if you think it through. They don't consider themselves homosexuals simply because they don't think of themselves as women in mens' bodies. They think of themselves as big, bad, woman-oppressing he-men who prefer to fuck other men, so as to avoid the stink of the horrid unclean women.

Don't you people understand anything at all about those assholes? Do you all live in fucking bubbles, or what. They are...ALL...FUCKED...UP....

And they need to be fixed. Unfortunately, fixing them may require shipping them back to the supernatural Bozo who made them.
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#15  Postby PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Jun 11, 2010 10:17 pm

Eryemil wrote:
Jakov wrote:Wouldn't they die out if the majority of them are gay?


Sexual orientation is not something one does, it is something one is. The sex of those you actually fuck has no more bearing on your sexuality than the music you listen to has on the color of your skin.

For hundreds of years homosexual men have been avoiding persecution by pretending to be heterosexual. Being gay does not automatically make our sperm infertile; if we put our cocks inside a vagina a baby will pop out of it nine months later.

It is within the realm of possibility that a group of homosexual men would keep women around for reproduction and domestic work while having sex mostly with each other unless they require offspring.


I would be surprised however if these men in the article were more inclined to homosexuality than men anywhere else. That is, a small minority of them would be exclusively homosexual while the majority would be somewhere between exclusively heterosexual and many degrees of bisexuality.

As I wrote above, it is much more likely that those that are indeed attracted to women sexually would deny it due to social pressure. I find this a very funny example of how certain belief systems allow minorities to control the majority instead of the alternative which is much more common.


actually, there been a fair bit on the "gay gene", and its linked with increased fertility.
http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v5/n12/full/nrg1510.html (sorry, I know its just the title, not even an abstract)

I suppose I should look at my previous rants on another forum for the source material that was better, but at the moment I cant be arsed.

also, regarding widespread homosexuality, didn't wipe out the greeks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#16  Postby Eryemil » Jun 11, 2010 10:37 pm

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn wrote:
Eryemil wrote:
Jakov wrote:Wouldn't they die out if the majority of them are gay?


Sexual orientation is not something one does, it is something one is. The sex of those you actually fuck has no more bearing on your sexuality than the music you listen to has on the color of your skin.

For hundreds of years homosexual men have been avoiding persecution by pretending to be heterosexual. Being gay does not automatically make our sperm infertile; if we put our cocks inside a vagina a baby will pop out of it nine months later.

It is within the realm of possibility that a group of homosexual men would keep women around for reproduction and domestic work while having sex mostly with each other unless they require offspring.


I would be surprised however if these men in the article were more inclined to homosexuality than men anywhere else. That is, a small minority of them would be exclusively homosexual while the majority would be somewhere between exclusively heterosexual and many degrees of bisexuality.

As I wrote above, it is much more likely that those that are indeed attracted to women sexually would deny it due to social pressure. I find this a very funny example of how certain belief systems allow minorities to control the majority instead of the alternative which is much more common.


actually, there been a fair bit on the "gay gene", and its linked with increased fertility.
http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v5/n12/full/nrg1510.html (sorry, I know its just the title, not even an abstract)


I am aware of this study.

How is this at all relevant to what I wrote above? Instead of being so defensive you might actually want to read my post.

also, regarding widespread homosexuality, didn't wipe out the greeks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece


Homosexuality in ancient Greece was a complicated subject, probably more complex than the what is described to happen among these Pashtun men.
Last edited by Eryemil on Jun 11, 2010 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#17  Postby crank » Jun 11, 2010 10:38 pm

There was a Frontline special recently about the Bacha bazi, literally "child play", the little boys kept by many of the wealthier men, an old tradition. From Wiki:

Bacha bazi


Bacha Bazi (a Farsi term meaning "child play"), also known as bacchá ' (from the Persian bacche بچه‌ "child, young man, calf") is a practice recognized as sexual slavery and child prostitution[1] in which prepubescent children are sold to wealthy or powerful men for entertainment and sexual activities. This business thrives in northern Afghanistan, where many men keep them as status symbols[2]. Some of the individuals involved report being forced into sex, while others report strong emotional and physical bonds formed over the course of relationships lasting many years, often into the boys' adulthood. At times the relationships interfere with the man's marriage. Occasionally the boy will marry his lover's daughter when he comes of age. The authorities are attempting to crack down on the practice as "un-Islamic and immoral acts" but many doubt it would be effective since many of the men are powerful and well-armed former commanders.[3]


I can't help but get images of old fat men playing bocce ball????

Dance of a bacchá (dancing boy)
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#18  Postby PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Jun 11, 2010 11:54 pm

Eryemil wrote:


I am aware of this study.

How is this at all relevant to what I wrote above? Instead of being so defensive you might actually want to read my post.

also, regarding widespread homosexuality, didn't wipe out the greeks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece


Homosexuality in ancient Greece was a complicated subject, probably more complex than the what is described to happen among these Pashtun men.


It was mostly to do with the quote you were replying, and your "if we put our cocks inside a vagina a baby will pop out of it nine months later. " statement. I was agreeing and sort of trying to add a bit to it.

just to add, I'm not defensive I have no axe to grind (I have no issues with homosexuality, personally I dont see how you lot (or women) find blokes attractive.)
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#19  Postby Foxy » Jun 12, 2010 12:26 am

The U.S. army medic also told members of the research unit that she and her colleagues had to explain to a local man how to get his wife pregnant.

The report said: "When it was explained to him what was necessary, he reacted with disgust and asked, 'How could one feel desire to be with a woman, who God has made unclean, when one could be with a man, who is clean? Surely this must be wrong.'"

I find this hard to believe. Wouldn't anyone know how to have sex just by instinct, or do humans not have instincts?
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Re: Afghan Muslims not so Homophobic after all

#20  Postby james1v » Jun 12, 2010 12:36 am

Mo promised his followers "pretty boys" to accompany them on their travels. Why "pretty"? :think:
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