AmeriKKKa

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Re: AmeriKKKa

#61  Postby hackenslash » Apr 28, 2021 3:54 pm

Tortured_Genius wrote:This is unreal: US army officer sues police over violent traffic stop(BBC)

The embedded bodycam footage shows blatant excessive use of force against an unresisting, measured and co-operating military officer who is clearly fully aware of the dangerous situation he's in and doing his best to de-escalate things. His "crime" appears to be driving a car whilst black.

The authorities should be stamping down hard on the officers involved, with summary dismissal and laying of criminal assault charges - but does anyone care to bet on what will actually happen?


I'll be talking quite a bit about this on the blog in the near future.

Prior to my withdrawal, I had started researching related topics while I was making plans to write for the blog about how we think about authority, and I spent a lot of time watching footage and reading legislation. I had penned a couple of posts - one anchored in the UK and the other in the US - and I've done extensive research (you know, the sceptic's version of research, not the twenty-eight seconds reading the page titles that pop up on the first page in a google search).

My takeaway is that modern policing is fucked in both countries, and they're not alone. Modern policing now has nothing to do with the protection of society and everything to do with protecting master's interests. In the UK, for example, you can't get them to attend for a burglary, but they turn up team-handed, code 3 for a guy with a camera in public - not just legal but actually protected in law in both countries. They fundamentally misunderstand the lawful underpinnings of the balance of authority, reversing it entirely, and being actively supported by the judiciary in both countries.

Both countries have extremely low thresholds for intelligence in their law enforcement personnel. Worse, they seem to have extremely low ceilings for intelligence as well. It's hard to pin down a robust figure for the UK, but in the US is pretty trivial to define, because of an interesting turn of events a few years ago. What follows is the only case that's come to court, but it illustrates a ubiquitous practice.

A man had applied to the police academy for New London, Ct, and had taken the entrance test. His test on the score was 33 points, which roughly equates to an IQ of around 125 - not even sufficient for rocket science :mrgreen:. New London police only interviewed candidates who scored between 20 and 27, which, by my reckoning, puts them somewhere between Ralph Wiggum and Barney Gumble.

He filed a lawsuit against the city, which made its way eventually to the 2nd circuit court of appeals in New York, who rejected his suit on what looks to me like a very bizarre interpretation of English. Their reasoning was that the same standard was applied to everybody. Let's not even get into whether the standard of 'are you black' or 'are you a woman' would fit that self-same criterion for dismissal.

In fact, if you think the role of police is to protect, then a few key points need to be borne in mind:

1. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. No matter what you might think you need the police for, protection isn't something you'll ever receive unless you're in the club.
2. The US Supreme Court have repeatedly ruled that the police have no duty to the safety of citizens.
3. The key factor in every single encounter is officer safety.

In my view, we have a pretty poor perspective when it comes to police officers. We afford them as individuals a respect they haven't earned based only on their membership of the collective. In fact, we shouldn't be viewing them as individuals (except in terms of initiating violence; I'd never advocate treating them as less than human; just differently), or even as people, because they aren't people from the moment they take the oath and put on the badge (oh, it turns out the ubiquity of the oath to the constitution is a total myth, as well; many do, but it's neither universal nor required. I'll have a lot to say about this), they're the government, and that's how they should be treated. They're the internal military arm of the state. This isn't what they should be, of course.

And the ultimate insult, the blue line flag. Flags are, by definition, abstractions of borders. When you put a border between the police service (not force; the term 'police force' needs to be eradicated from our lexicons and our psyches) and the citizens, dress them as if they're preparing for the invasion of Poland and load them up with MRAPs and other military grade equipment and weaponry, you turn the citizens into the enemy.

They're actively trained to lie, coerce, intimidate and generally bully people into getting what they want, despite the fact that in neither country do they have the authority to do so. In both countries, nobody is required to even speak to the police until certain criteria are met. In both countries, when questioned about whether questions need to be answered, they bristle and become aggressive (I had one cop in Nebraska approach me with his hand on his gun and his thumb over the release when I asked whether I was legally obligated to tell him my name). For the most part, they're dumb, petulant, supremely violent and on the threshold of violence at all times, massively ego-driven and colossally ignorant of even the most basic of laws they're supposed to be upholding.

What about the good ones?

It's a trick question. There are no good ones. I have no doubt that some try to be good, but they can't be, because of indoctrination into thinking their employees are the enemy but, ultimately, because there are only three ways for a good cop's career to go, and they happen fast; You're sucked in, weeded out or, worse, you're Serpico. The few who make it through with the best of intentions and actually try don't last long. I've spoken to former cops who told me they were more frightened of other officers, of being seen as 'not one of us' and genuinely feared for his life if he didn't toe the line or just get out. He chose wisely, to the detriment of the rest of us. The whole spiel about 'a few bad apples' is bullshit, as well (and overlooks the entire point of the truism from which the saying stems, namely that a few bad apples spoils the whole barrel). The cop who commits the unjustified violence* = bad apple. The cop who protects him while he's doing it and covers for him afterwards = bad apple. The command structure that not only allows them to keep their jobs but actively defends and protects them = bad apple.

The latter is especially bad. When an incident is picked up by the media, the police use the media machine to construct a narrative favourable to the violent criminal in state livery by painting a whataboutist picture of the victim. They actively scupper investigations into officer misconduct, dismiss complaints and only investigate them if they come to more widespread attention (like the navy investigation into the Colin K thing). They're only interested in their version of protecting the public trust in their organisations, by employing whatever means necessary to ensure that it never gets out. Secrecy, dishonesty and conspiracy (and yes, this is real conspiracy) trump transparency when you're stupid.

The other point to make is that, even removing the latter two factors in that analogy, the 'bad apples' aren't the minority. They can't be, or there's be no bad apples. Good cops don't let bad cops be bad cops. Thus there are no good cops.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

And, of course, it's no different in the UK, except that it is, in some respects, worse. Complaints are always ignored,
Frankly, if the underlying causes of crime were even remotely addressed (maybe by treating economic and social injustice as the crimes they are, for example), there would be little need for policing except as peacekeepers in civil disputes. But that would be socialist, and neither country likes socialism.

OK, s it turned out I wrote quite a bit about it here. Still there's shitloads more to be said. I haven't even touched on one of the most disgusting aspects of US policing; the odious oxygen-thief Joe Gamaldi and Fraternal Order of Police (doesn't that smack of the freemasons...)

Anyhoo, rant over for now.

*By violence, I mean any violation of bodily autonomy. Arrest is violence. Coercion is violence. Violence is the primary (only) tool at their disposal. Intelligence is a much better tool in almost all cases, but they haven't got any.
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#62  Postby Seabass » Apr 28, 2021 9:31 pm

Here's an example of what happens to the good ones.


Amid nationwide protests over police abuse, we speak with Cariol Horne, the Buffalo police officer whom a New York court has just vindicated for stopping a fellow cop from choking a handcuffed Black man during an arrest. In 2006, Horne, who is Black, saw a white officer repeatedly punching the man in the face before putting him in a chokehold. After Horne heard the man say "I can't breathe," she intervened by grabbing the officer's arm. Horne was sanctioned by the Buffalo Police Department, reassigned, then fired in 2008, just months before she was eligible to receive her full pension. A new ruling makes her eligible for back pay and pension benefits. Horne says she is now calling on state governments and Congress to follow the lead of Buffalo, which passed Cariol's Law, legislation that makes it the duty of officers to intervene in cases of brutality. "I knew that I did the right thing," Horne says. We also speak with Intisar Rabb, a Harvard Law professor who is one of three attorneys representing Horne. Cariol's Law "should spread far and wide" to other cities and states, Rabb says.


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Re: AmeriKKKa

#63  Postby hackenslash » Apr 28, 2021 10:59 pm

Indeed. I was watching that case over the last few years. it's been a long time coming.
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#64  Postby Tortured_Genius » Apr 30, 2021 1:56 pm

Despite Hacks' somewhat despondent view of policing in the UK, they are at least binning the more obvious fascists: Benjamin Hannam: Former Met PC who was neo-Nazi group member is jailed (BBC)
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#65  Postby hackenslash » Apr 30, 2021 7:15 pm

Only because they're obvious (ETA: Also because he was a member of an organisation on a terror watchlist; police do much worse and it gets ignored.)

Besides, that's not a 'despondent view', it's how it is. They're mostly stupid, violent thugs, ignorant of the law, and entirely unfit for purpose.

Here's an experiment for you to try yourself:

Go ask a copper to explain section 5 of the public order act to you.

You'll hear a lot of mumbling and three words; alarm, harassment and distress. None of them can keep the preceding part in their heads for three seconds, and they're the words that define the section, not the three words they give you.

And the best bit? This is the piece of legislation they use most to hem people up, yet I've never encountered one who could remember the bit about 'violent and abusive behaviour', which is the key wording.

The one and only saving grace of the UK police is that they don't weed out the ones who want to be good. Other than that, they're next to worthless.

It's a job, and they should hire people competent to do it. They don't. On purpose.
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#66  Postby The_Metatron » Apr 30, 2021 7:42 pm

hackenslash wrote:
Tortured_Genius wrote:This is unreal: US army officer sues police over violent traffic stop(BBC)

The embedded bodycam footage shows blatant excessive use of force against an unresisting, measured and co-operating military officer who is clearly fully aware of the dangerous situation he's in and doing his best to de-escalate things. His "crime" appears to be driving a car whilst black.

The authorities should be stamping down hard on the officers involved, with summary dismissal and laying of criminal assault charges - but does anyone care to bet on what will actually happen?


I'll be talking quite a bit about this on the blog in the near future.

Prior to my withdrawal, I had started researching related topics while I was making plans to write for the blog about how we think about authority, and I spent a lot of time watching footage and reading legislation. I had penned a couple of posts - one anchored in the UK and the other in the US - and I've done extensive research (you know, the sceptic's version of research, not the twenty-eight seconds reading the page titles that pop up on the first page in a google search).

My takeaway is that modern policing is fucked in both countries, and they're not alone. Modern policing now has nothing to do with the protection of society and everything to do with protecting master's interests. In the UK, for example, you can't get them to attend for a burglary, but they turn up team-handed, code 3 for a guy with a camera in public - not just legal but actually protected in law in both countries. They fundamentally misunderstand the lawful underpinnings of the balance of authority, reversing it entirely, and being actively supported by the judiciary in both countries.

Both countries have extremely low thresholds for intelligence in their law enforcement personnel. Worse, they seem to have extremely low ceilings for intelligence as well. It's hard to pin down a robust figure for the UK, but in the US is pretty trivial to define, because of an interesting turn of events a few years ago. What follows is the only case that's come to court, but it illustrates a ubiquitous practice.

A man had applied to the police academy for New London, Ct, and had taken the entrance test. His test on the score was 33 points, which roughly equates to an IQ of around 125 - not even sufficient for rocket science :mrgreen:. New London police only interviewed candidates who scored between 20 and 27, which, by my reckoning, puts them somewhere between Ralph Wiggum and Barney Gumble.

He filed a lawsuit against the city, which made its way eventually to the 2nd circuit court of appeals in New York, who rejected his suit on what looks to me like a very bizarre interpretation of English. Their reasoning was that the same standard was applied to everybody. Let's not even get into whether the standard of 'are you black' or 'are you a woman' would fit that self-same criterion for dismissal.

In fact, if you think the role of police is to protect, then a few key points need to be borne in mind:

1. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. No matter what you might think you need the police for, protection isn't something you'll ever receive unless you're in the club.
2. The US Supreme Court have repeatedly ruled that the police have no duty to the safety of citizens.
3. The key factor in every single encounter is officer safety.

In my view, we have a pretty poor perspective when it comes to police officers. We afford them as individuals a respect they haven't earned based only on their membership of the collective. In fact, we shouldn't be viewing them as individuals (except in terms of initiating violence; I'd never advocate treating them as less than human; just differently), or even as people, because they aren't people from the moment they take the oath and put on the badge (oh, it turns out the ubiquity of the oath to the constitution is a total myth, as well; many do, but it's neither universal nor required. I'll have a lot to say about this), they're the government, and that's how they should be treated. They're the internal military arm of the state. This isn't what they should be, of course.

And the ultimate insult, the blue line flag. Flags are, by definition, abstractions of borders. When you put a border between the police service (not force; the term 'police force' needs to be eradicated from our lexicons and our psyches) and the citizens, dress them as if they're preparing for the invasion of Poland and load them up with MRAPs and other military grade equipment and weaponry, you turn the citizens into the enemy.

They're actively trained to lie, coerce, intimidate and generally bully people into getting what they want, despite the fact that in neither country do they have the authority to do so. In both countries, nobody is required to even speak to the police until certain criteria are met. In both countries, when questioned about whether questions need to be answered, they bristle and become aggressive (I had one cop in Nebraska approach me with his hand on his gun and his thumb over the release when I asked whether I was legally obligated to tell him my name). For the most part, they're dumb, petulant, supremely violent and on the threshold of violence at all times, massively ego-driven and colossally ignorant of even the most basic of laws they're supposed to be upholding.

What about the good ones?

It's a trick question. There are no good ones. I have no doubt that some try to be good, but they can't be, because of indoctrination into thinking their employees are the enemy but, ultimately, because there are only three ways for a good cop's career to go, and they happen fast; You're sucked in, weeded out or, worse, you're Serpico. The few who make it through with the best of intentions and actually try don't last long. I've spoken to former cops who told me they were more frightened of other officers, of being seen as 'not one of us' and genuinely feared for his life if he didn't toe the line or just get out. He chose wisely, to the detriment of the rest of us. The whole spiel about 'a few bad apples' is bullshit, as well (and overlooks the entire point of the truism from which the saying stems, namely that a few bad apples spoils the whole barrel). The cop who commits the unjustified violence* = bad apple. The cop who protects him while he's doing it and covers for him afterwards = bad apple. The command structure that not only allows them to keep their jobs but actively defends and protects them = bad apple.

The latter is especially bad. When an incident is picked up by the media, the police use the media machine to construct a narrative favourable to the violent criminal in state livery by painting a whataboutist picture of the victim. They actively scupper investigations into officer misconduct, dismiss complaints and only investigate them if they come to more widespread attention (like the navy investigation into the Colin K thing). They're only interested in their version of protecting the public trust in their organisations, by employing whatever means necessary to ensure that it never gets out. Secrecy, dishonesty and conspiracy (and yes, this is real conspiracy) trump transparency when you're stupid.

The other point to make is that, even removing the latter two factors in that analogy, the 'bad apples' aren't the minority. They can't be, or there's be no bad apples. Good cops don't let bad cops be bad cops. Thus there are no good cops.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

And, of course, it's no different in the UK, except that it is, in some respects, worse. Complaints are always ignored,
Frankly, if the underlying causes of crime were even remotely addressed (maybe by treating economic and social injustice as the crimes they are, for example), there would be little need for policing except as peacekeepers in civil disputes. But that would be socialist, and neither country likes socialism.

OK, s it turned out I wrote quite a bit about it here. Still there's shitloads more to be said. I haven't even touched on one of the most disgusting aspects of US policing; the odious oxygen-thief Joe Gamaldi and Fraternal Order of Police (doesn't that smack of the freemasons...)

Anyhoo, rant over for now.

*By violence, I mean any violation of bodily autonomy. Arrest is violence. Coercion is violence. Violence is the primary (only) tool at their disposal. Intelligence is a much better tool in almost all cases, but they haven't got any.

That pretty well sums up my views.

Men and women without a scrap of real courage or honor among them. We should always remember, whenever we see a pig standing on someone's neck or whatever other cruel shit they do to citizens, they WANT to do this shit. They volunteer for it.

Officer safety, my shiny metal ass. If it's so fucking scary, go the fuck home, pigs. Motherfuckers hiding behind their thin blue line and their qualified immunity. Fuck that shit. The organizations serve no benefit to society.

Criminals can be counted upon to be criminal. They can be trusted to behave according to their station. Pigs, on the other hand, will try to make us think their job is oh, so fucking dangerous, and aren't we friends, let's have your identification so they "know who they're talking to". Lying fucks will always, always do what is in their own interests. Those interests do not align with the needs of society.

There is absolutely no point when the word of a pig in the United States can be taken as truth. At no time.
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#67  Postby hackenslash » Apr 30, 2021 9:08 pm

The_Metatron wrote:Pigs, on the other hand, will try to make us think their job is oh, so fucking dangerous,


This one really sticks in my throat. Being a LEO in the US isn't remotely dangerous. It isn't even in the top percentile for danger. nor for stress. Customer service is more stressful

and aren't we friends, let's have your identification so they "know who they're talking to".


Yep,and the usual 'this day and age' and 'current climate', overlooking the fact that (last time I checked the stats) you were 19 times more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist. Well, except for the fact that, by any qualifying metric, they ARE terrorists, and they're happy to employ all the usual demagogic tactics to get what they want.

See below. These are not isolated incidents
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#68  Postby hackenslash » Apr 30, 2021 9:13 pm

And a slightly more light-hearted one, just to raise the spirits after that horrific exposition.

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Re: AmeriKKKa

#69  Postby Seabass » May 01, 2021 2:07 am

66 year old librarian. You'll never guess what skin color...

Body camera video from law enforcement officers in Rowan County show officers pulling a 66-year-old librarian from her car by her hair, and throwing her to the ground during a 2019 traffic stop.

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Re: AmeriKKKa

#70  Postby hackenslash » May 01, 2021 2:16 am

Again, not remotely isolated.

Saw one earlier this week where a 73 year-old woman was brutalised. Had been accused of trying and failing to steal something from Walmart, clearly had issues.

And that's not even the worst of it. There's footage of the cops watching the bodycam video back at the station, and you can hear one of them say, 'here comes the pop', describing the thug dislocating her shoulder. And they laughed.
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#71  Postby Seabass » May 04, 2021 10:13 pm

Not all cops are bad. All racists are bad.


Video shows racist tirade against LA County deputy during traffic stop

LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- Body camera footage shows a woman unleashing a racist tirade on a Los Angeles County sheriff's deputy during a traffic stop in San Dimas.

In the video, the woman is heard telling the deputy, "You're always going to be a Mexican. You'll never be white, you know that, right?"

"You'll never be white, which is what you really want to be," she says after signing a citation. "You want to be white."

The bodycam video of the traffic stop is now the subject of a sheriff's department investigation.

The incident happened when a sheriff's deputy pulled over a white Mercedes-Benz after deputies say they spotted the driver on her cellphone.

As the deputy approaches the vehicle, the driver has her cellphone out and is recording.

The interaction quickly turns confrontational as the driver questions the deputy's motives for the stop and accuses him of trying to murder her.

Before the deputy explains why she was pulled over, the woman interrupts him.

"Yes, I started to record because you're a murderer," she says.

The deputy tells the woman she can't be using her cellphone while driving and the woman responds by saying she was recording because the deputy scared her.

"You're threatening to kill me and my son," she says at one point in the encounter.

She says her driver's license was at her apartment when the deputy asked for it.

The deputy eventually tells the woman that she too is being recorded since he was wearing a body camera.

The L.A. County Sheriff's Department is in the midst of rolling out bodycams to all its deputies, but the deputy in the video hasn't received one and is using a personal bodycam.

Another deputy arrives on the scene to help diffuse the situation and the woman then hurls racist insults.

"Here you go Mexican racist," she says as she returns a pen to the deputy after signing a citation.

She goes on to tell him, "You're always going to be a Mexican. You'll never be white, you know that, right?"

Sheriff Alex Villanueva says he's seen the video and is defending the deputy's actions.

"This Deputy exemplifies the core values of our Department, his demeanor during this traffic stop is just an example of professionalism and patience our @LASDHQ Deputies have," he tweeted.

It is unknown if the woman turned over her cellphone video to the sheriff's department.
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#72  Postby Seabass » May 04, 2021 10:29 pm

"Why can't black folks just pick themselves up the bootstraps like us white folks? I don't see any systemic racism in America."

How a California beachfront property now worth millions was taken from its Black owners
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#73  Postby The_Piper » May 05, 2021 3:17 am

hackenslash wrote:Again, not remotely isolated.

Saw one earlier this week where a 73 year-old woman was brutalised. Had been accused of trying and failing to steal something from Walmart, clearly had issues.

And that's not even the worst of it. There's footage of the cops watching the bodycam video back at the station, and you can hear one of them say, 'here comes the pop', describing the thug dislocating her shoulder. And they laughed.

The footage of them laughing made me as uneasy as the actual brutalization. Hopefully the sick maniac is charged with assault and battery. He's off the force, thankfully.
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#74  Postby Seabass » May 30, 2021 10:43 pm

So far this year, GOP lawmakers in 32 states have introduced over 80 anti-protest bills. This segment is a round-up of those bills, from the ones that could take your student loans to the ones that could make it a crime to taunt a cop. It explores the GOP’s go-to way of responding to protests: making them a crime.




Note:

96.3% of BLM protests had no property damage.
97.7% of BLM protests had no reported injuries.
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#75  Postby Calilasseia » May 31, 2021 10:31 pm

The obvious question being what are the parallel stats for rampages by white supremacists and Neo-Nazis?
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#76  Postby Spearthrower » May 31, 2021 10:43 pm

Calilasseia wrote:The obvious question being what are the parallel stats for rampages by white supremacists and Neo-Nazis?



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You can't blame patriots who just love their country too much they go a little far sometimes!


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Re: AmeriKKKa

#77  Postby Seabass » Jun 02, 2021 8:59 am

Republicans don't want this sort of thing taught in schools because it upends the foundational myth that American conservatism is built upon: the deep-rooted belief that people with dark skin are inherently inferior and therefore any attempt to reduce wealth inequality is really a transfer of wealth from industrious, productive white people to non-contributing black people.



Memorial Day marks the 100th anniversary of the 1921 Tulsa race massacre, one of the deadliest episodes of racial violence in U.S. history, when the thriving African American neighborhood of Greenwood in Tulsa, Oklahoma — known as "Black Wall Street" — was burned to the ground by a white mob. An estimated 300 African Americans were killed and over 1,000 injured. Whites in Tulsa actively suppressed the truth, and African Americans were intimidated into silence. But efforts to restore the horrific event to its rightful place in U.S. history are having an impact. Survivors testified last week before Congress, calling for reparations. President Biden is set to visit Tulsa on Tuesday. We speak with documentary filmmaker Stanley Nelson, whose new film premiering this weekend explores how Black residents sought out freedom in Oklahoma and built a thriving community in Greenwood, and how it was all destroyed over two days of horrific violence. Nelson notes many African Americans migrated westward after the Civil War "to start a new life" with dignity. "Greenwood was one of over 100 African American communities in the West," he says. "Greenwood was the biggest and the baddest of those communities."


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Re: AmeriKKKa

#78  Postby i have no avatar » Jun 03, 2021 4:56 am

I saw the guy in the pictures below (one image - copied, enlarged, and cropped, as needed) just before boarding a recent ATL to DAL flight. :scratch:

As the little purple guy above suggests, I am confused, because:

I'm pretty sure that the Union victory over the Confederacy in the American Civil War ensured the freedom of millions of people and their descendants*, so, yeah, I'm confused.

I think that those on the fora who are familiar with me know that I am not very confrontational (so I did not ask him to resolve my confusion). For this, I apologize. Also, I'm sorry for the poor quality of the image as I was trying to be discrete, while neither laughing, nor shaking my head in disgust.

* Although people were, and are, still subject to violence and discrimination.
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but i do have a signature
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#79  Postby arugula2 » Jun 03, 2021 8:32 am

^ In their minds, they didn't lose the Civil War. And they're right, unfortunately. The "stars and stripes" contingent bent to the will of the Dixie side. All the South really lost was the opportunity to form a separate country - so it subsumed the existing one into itself, and now we live in the resulting mutation. Slavery morphed into other versions of slavery (and even the formal version was explicitly preserved). If anyone thinks Americans gave up their human "property" without reclaiming it a thousand other ways, legal and not, they don't really get this country.
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Re: AmeriKKKa

#80  Postby Hermit » Jun 03, 2021 8:35 am

Let's see now. Man wears a T-shirt proclaiming (The US is the)

Land of the Free
Because of the Brave


Who might this man think were the brave? Here's a hint: He wears a ring sporting the battle-flag of the secessionist states who waged war in order to preserve their right to own slaves. The population of the secessionist states consisted of about 5,500,000 whites and 3,500,000 Black slaves when the civil war began.

Bit ironic, isn't it?
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