I hear what you say (well, I read what you say), but I think we all, including the anti-vaxxers, have to be aware of the reality and face up to it, explicitly: in this case, that getting the vaccine greatly improves your chances, especially against getting seriously sick if you do contract the disease, but it's not an impregnable defence. Like seat belts (apparently there are people who were thrown through their car windows during an accident and thereby survived, which they wouldn't have done had they been wearing a belt), and like many things, which protect you in the great majority of cases, but not necessarily in 100% of them.

He had blood cancer which, as I understand it, can screw your immune system a bit plus him being 80+?

Agrippina wrote:

The_Piper wrote:I'm actually shocked to hear it. I didn't know he was battling cancer. I thought of Powell as one of the few sane Republicans. That was probably true. It's maddening, that we live among some fairly radicalized people, to hate and indifference.

I've always thought the people at the top of the military ladder in the US were had a little more decency than the general populace who vote for idiots simply because of the stupid reasons they do, like making perving over your own daughter acceptable. Which is why I had a little respect for Powell, and especially because he admitted voting for Biden (I think I read that somewhere, can't remember). What I hate is that it's now given anti-vaxxers a weapon - see he had two doses of the vaccine and still died of Covid. That annoys me, I didn't want fuel for their stupidity, and now it's making me obsessive about pursuing a booster for my old man who has diabetes. He barely survived an attack after the first vaccination, so the fear is valid. If only it had been the cancer that got him and not the virus. Not that I wish anyone's death, it's just that I would've preferred it if he hadn't been sick with Covid.

Yeah. Powell's age, condition, and cancer treatment probably rendered him vulnerable to sniffle. It is annoying. I hope you can keep yourself and husband from getting infected again, whatever you decide with the booster.

The_Piper wrote:I'm actually shocked to hear it. I didn't know he was battling cancer. I thought of Powell as one of the few sane Republicans. That was probably true. It's maddening, that we live among some fairly radicalized people, to hate and indifference.

To clarify this, I wasn't calling Powell radicalized (though it may be the case), I was saying that it's maddening that he was one of the few sane Republicans, and there aren't more. Sure Lindsey Graham, for instance, is clinically sane, but he is radicalized to hate and indifference, and a large but unknown number of the voters are.

Have a read of some of Powell's exploits during the Vietnam War and the Iran-Contra affair and you might get a better picture of him. Suffice it to say that Iraq and Afghanistan were merely the tail end of a long career of covering up war crimes.

That he held relatively moderate views and was capable of rather more insightful takes than your average Republican statesman only made him a better salesman for bad foreign policy.

Matt_B wrote:Have a read of some of Powell's exploits during the Vietnam War and the Iran-Contra affair and you might get a better picture of him. Suffice it to say that Iraq and Afghanistan were merely the tail end of a long career of covering up war crimes.

That he held relatively moderate views and was capable of rather more insightful takes than your average Republican statesman only made him a better salesman for bad foreign policy.

He knew the same things I do about military service: One "oh, shit" undoes all of the "attaboys". He perpetuated and strengthened the bald truth that the United States, as a matter of national policy, lies to the world and is not to be trusted. He did that while on his way to war over his lies.

Did you know the decision had already been made to attack, even while he was lying to the planet?

Fuck him. I have dead colleagues because of him. Iraq has tens of thousands of dead because if him.

Edited to add: My apologies, Matt_B, for my tone. I understand your post. My deep personal hatred of liars colors my thoughts too harshly sometimes, and I wasn't aiming it at you.

The_Piper wrote:

Agrippina wrote:

The_Piper wrote:I'm actually shocked to hear it. I didn't know he was battling cancer. I thought of Powell as one of the few sane Republicans. That was probably true. It's maddening, that we live among some fairly radicalized people, to hate and indifference.

I've always thought the people at the top of the military ladder in the US were had a little more decency than the general populace who vote for idiots simply because of the stupid reasons they do, like making perving over your own daughter acceptable. Which is why I had a little respect for Powell, and especially because he admitted voting for Biden (I think I read that somewhere, can't remember). What I hate is that it's now given anti-vaxxers a weapon - see he had two doses of the vaccine and still died of Covid. That annoys me, I didn't want fuel for their stupidity, and now it's making me obsessive about pursuing a booster for my old man who has diabetes. He barely survived an attack after the first vaccination, so the fear is valid. If only it had been the cancer that got him and not the virus. Not that I wish anyone's death, it's just that I would've preferred it if he hadn't been sick with Covid.

Yeah. Powell's age, condition, and cancer treatment probably rendered him vulnerable to sniffle. It is annoying. I hope you can keep yourself and husband from getting infected again, whatever you decide with the booster.

Oh we'll definitely get every protection they're offering.

Madeleine Albright. One of countless sociopathic mediocrities who shaped late-20th century US foreign policy. Much more useful to the world as fertilizer. Too many of them still living and active.

arugula2 wrote:Madeleine Albright. One of countless sociopathic mediocrities who shaped late-20th century US foreign policy. Much more useful to the world as fertilizer. Too many of them still living and active.

Can’t say I disagree, necessarily. While she’s no Cheney, not far from the bottom of the barrel.

It smells in the shadows.

Albright Stonebridge Group - Wikipedia

Several firm alumni joined presidential administration of Joe Biden in 2021. The high concentration of officials entering from ASG and a relatively small number of similar firms worried some progressives over possible corporate influence on the administration.[5][6] Previous clients ASG alumni moving into the Biden administration worked with include Merck, Pfizer, Amazon, Lyft, and Microsoft, among others.[5]

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White supremacist and all-around pox on humanity Orrin Hatch...

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/23/politics/former-senator-orrin-hatch-dies/index.html

While I prefer to celebrate a life ....this death is certainly welcome.

I'm not going to gloat, but the fewer racists in the world, the better. Ideally it would be overcome through personal growth rather than a casket.

Sir James Anderton, controversial former chief constable of Greater Manchester Police, dies aged 89

God's copper and one of Thatcher's favourite bastards.

Shinzo Abe, former Prime Minister of Japan (2006-2007 & 2012-2020), ultranationalist, right-wing populist and ultra-conservative. Assassinated on 8 July 2022 at 11:30 JST (UTC+9)

Shinzo Abe was shot twice while delivering a campaign speech in Nara. The assassin used a homemade musket-style firearm which fired two shots, the first striking Abe in the neck and the second striking him fatally in the heart. A 41-year-old man named Tetsuya Yamagami (a former Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force officer) was arrested following the shooting and later confessed to local police. Yamagami stated that he held a grudge against a "particular religious group" and shot Abe because he believed that "the religious group and Abe were connected". Yamagami claimed that he "didn't have a grudge against Abe's political beliefs".

Hermit wrote:Shinzo Abe, former Prime Minister of Japan (2006-2007 & 2012-2020), ultranationalist, right-wing populist and ultra-conservative. Assassinated on 8 July 2022 at 11:30 JST (UTC+9)

Shinzo Abe was shot twice while delivering a campaign speech in Nara. The assassin used a homemade musket-style firearm which fired two shots, the first striking Abe in the neck and the second striking him fatally in the heart. A 41-year-old man named Tetsuya Yamagami (a former Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force officer) was arrested following the shooting and later confessed to local police. Yamagami stated that he held a grudge against a "particular religious group" and shot Abe because he believed that "the religious group and Abe were connected". Yamagami claimed that he "didn't have a grudge against Abe's political beliefs".

Not that I know anything about Abe but the BBC presented him as being very popular in Japan, hence my surprise to see him mentioned in this thread. Although I must also confess to losing much trust in the BBC.

jamest wrote:… BBC presented him as being very popular in Japan …

have we had Godwins Law in the thread yet? I feel tempted to fulfill it

Agi Hammerthief wrote:

jamest wrote:… BBC presented him as being very popular in Japan …

have we had Godwins Law in the thread yet? I feel tempted to fulfill it

Not sure if you're talking about Abe or the BBC, or even me, so do it!

jamest wrote:

Hermit wrote:Shinzo Abe, former Prime Minister of Japan (2006-2007 & 2012-2020), ultranationalist, right-wing populist and ultra-conservative. Assassinated on 8 July 2022 at 11:30 JST (UTC+9)

Not that I know anything about Abe but the BBC presented him as being very popular in Japan, hence my surprise to see him mentioned in this thread. Although I must also confess to losing much trust in the BBC.

Ultranationalist, right-wing populist and ultra-conservative politicians can be very popular. Several present and past national leaders are/were both.

Hermit wrote:

jamest wrote:

Hermit wrote:Shinzo Abe, former Prime Minister of Japan (2006-2007 & 2012-2020), ultranationalist, right-wing populist and ultra-conservative. Assassinated on 8 July 2022 at 11:30 JST (UTC+9)

Not that I know anything about Abe but the BBC presented him as being very popular in Japan, hence my surprise to see him mentioned in this thread. Although I must also confess to losing much trust in the BBC.

Ultranationalist, right-wing populist and ultra-conservative politicians can be very popular. Several present and past national leaders are/were both.

I would expect that most voters would demand that their leading politicians be ultranationalist and that most politicians are/were (unless those politicians' primary concern was themselves/selfishness, something far worse)? Can you provide me an example of a leading politician who is/was not an ultranationalist (or just plain selfish)? Not that I'm defending ultranationalism, but singling-out him in particular for such a 'crime' seems a bit unfair.

Similarly, I don't see why being a populist should necessarily be deemed a crime, as what value is a politician to a country if he/she disregards the opinions and desires of most ordinary/average people? Please enlighten me.

You're evidently ultra-displeased with right-wing conservative politics and I do not necessarily oppose your feelings on the matter, but unless you're an advocate of 'ultracommunism' then it doesn't sound to me that you have an argument here to celebrate his death, especially given that most politicians in The West (apart from the selfish ones) are similar to him?