"We're there dude" - Butthead

ScholasticSpastic wrote:This appears to be the year that the baby boomers broke all the toys because they didn't want the other generations to play with them.

Or the year that a bunch of spoiled youngsters threw a hissy fit and stomped off to sulk because they didn't get the flavor of lollipop that they wanted.

Time to take bets: how long will Trump be President, before he declares that he can't fulfill most of his campaign promises, because the Presidency is rigged?

Oldskeptic wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:This appears to be the year that the baby boomers broke all the toys because they didn't want the other generations to play with them.

Or the year that a bunch of spoiled youngsters threw a hissy fit and stomped off to sulk because they didn't get the flavor of lollipop that they wanted.

I'm open to the possibility that it was both.

Are we going to do recriminations, or are we going to fix this?

igorfrankensteen wrote:Time to take bets: how long will Trump be President, before he declares that he can't fulfill most of his campaign promises, because the Presidency is rigged?

I'll take before he's sworn in. How much do I need to bet, and how are we keeping track of everyone's money?

ScholasticSpastic wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:This appears to be the year that the baby boomers broke all the toys because they didn't want the other generations to play with them.

Or the year that a bunch of spoiled youngsters threw a hissy fit and stomped off to sulk because they didn't get the flavor of lollipop that they wanted.

I'm open to the possibility that it was both.

Are we going to do recriminations, or are we going to fix this?

Define "this".

The Trump family is going to take the country for everything they can get out of it. Bugger duty just give the money.

Well, we're here now. Where that is, exactly, is unknown.

laklak wrote:Well, we're here now. Where that is, exactly, is unknown.

And unpredictable.

Oldskeptic wrote:
Define "this".

Shorthand for a laundry list of issues that need to be dealt with now. Pick your favorite(s) and get to work.

My priorities are as follows:
1) Raise as big a stink as possible, so that any potential "Unfaithful Electors" know they have some kind of support. This is, in my mind, the least likely thing to succeed, but it takes priority right now because it'll happen soonest.
2) Take over the Utah Democratic party and fill it with people who actually do things.
3) Push for a Democratic Congress in 2018.
4) Work for a Democratic President in 2020.
5) (Not as time-specific as the other four) Work to refurbish the Democratic Party into something that's viable again.

Oldskeptic wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:This appears to be the year that the baby boomers broke all the toys because they didn't want the other generations to play with them.

Or the year that a bunch of spoiled youngsters threw a hissy fit and stomped off to sulk because they didn't get the flavor of lollipop that they wanted.

Clinton's numbers would have seen her lose to Romney.

It's the year that those most susceptible to propaganda believed in the least electable democrat in history, and insulted everyone that disagreed with them. After insulting them, they expected them to fall in line like good little brainless minions, just like the insultees, and then blamed everyone they insulted for nor voting for their unelectable candidate.

Clinton underperformed with blacks, Latinos, millenials, women, and men, compared to Obama. Maybe, just maybe it was the candidate, who is to blame. Clinton and the DNC also planned for propping up Trump, Carson, and someone else I don't remember because they would be easier to beat. How did that plan work out?

Willie71 wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:This appears to be the year that the baby boomers broke all the toys because they didn't want the other generations to play with them.

Or the year that a bunch of spoiled youngsters threw a hissy fit and stomped off to sulk because they didn't get the flavor of lollipop that they wanted.

Clinton's numbers would have seen her lose to Romney.

It's the year that those most susceptible to propaganda believed in the least electable democrat in history, and insulted everyone that disagreed with them. After insulting them, they expected them to fall in line like good little brainless minions, just like the insultees, and then blamed everyone they insulted for nor voting for their unelectable candidate.

Clinton underperformed with blacks, Latinos, millenials, women, and men, compared to Obama. Maybe, just maybe it was the candidate, who is to blame. Clinton and the DNC also planned for propping up Trump, Carson, and someone else I don't remember because they would be easier to beat. How did that plan work out?

This is all counterproductive bullshit. What is, is. If we don't like it, the solution is to figure out a better state of affairs and a reasonable route from here to there. Recriminations aren't going to fix anything. All they do is keep us closed off in our ineffectual little factions while otherwise preventable and very unfortunate things happen.

ScholasticSpastic wrote:

Willie71 wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:This appears to be the year that the baby boomers broke all the toys because they didn't want the other generations to play with them.

Or the year that a bunch of spoiled youngsters threw a hissy fit and stomped off to sulk because they didn't get the flavor of lollipop that they wanted.

Clinton's numbers would have seen her lose to Romney.

It's the year that those most susceptible to propaganda believed in the least electable democrat in history, and insulted everyone that disagreed with them. After insulting them, they expected them to fall in line like good little brainless minions, just like the insultees, and then blamed everyone they insulted for nor voting for their unelectable candidate.

Clinton underperformed with blacks, Latinos, millenials, women, and men, compared to Obama. Maybe, just maybe it was the candidate, who is to blame. Clinton and the DNC also planned for propping up Trump, Carson, and someone else I don't remember because they would be easier to beat. How did that plan work out?

This is all counterproductive bullshit. What is, is. If we don't like it, the solution is to figure out a better state of affairs and a reasonable route from here to there. Recriminations aren't going to fix anything. All they do is keep us closed off in our ineffectual little factions while otherwise preventable and very unfortunate things happen.

If the democrats don't acknowledge that pushing a corporatist hawkish Wall Street shill is a bad idea, this will not get any better. Blaming millenials will not get them engaged. It was Clinton and the DNC's job to engage voters, and they failed in the largest clusterfuck in my lifetime.

The democrats need to apologize to their base, not blame it, and move in a populist direction. People like OS need to stop being counterproductive. I pointed out that his insults to progressives would harm democrats, and I did that to everyone vilifying progressives. It fell on deaf ears, and many if them aren't learning. Trump won on a combination of nationalism, fear of others, and false populism.

I read this morning that Harry Ried is supporting Sanders' recommendation for Ellison as DNC chair. That's a step in the right direction.

Willie71 wrote:
If the democrats don't acknowledge that pushing a corporatist hawkish Wall Street shill is a bad idea, this will not get any better. Blaming millenials will not get them engaged. It was Clinton and the DNC's job to engage voters, and they failed in the largest clusterfuck in my lifetime.

Yes, the DNC dropped the ball. Now we're living in the reality which was created by dropping that ball. Any ideas about how to proceed from here?

The democrats need to apologize to their base, not blame it, and move in a populist direction. People like OS need to stop being counterproductive. I pointed out that his insults to progressives would harm democrats, and I did that to everyone vilifying progressives. It fell on deaf ears, and many if them aren't learning. Trump won on a combination of nationalism, fear of others, and false populism.

We don't have time for worrying about who started what, and why. I don't care which of you is right or wrong. And the Democrats don't need to apologize to anyone. They need to be replaced. We're working on it. I understand that it must be frustrating having so much of your life impacted by our fuckups while not being able to participate in solutions. But you could at least turn your mind towards productive assessment of how to fix this rather than the exercise in futility that assigning blame is.

I read this morning that Harry Ried is supporting Sanders' recommendation for Ellison as DNC chair. That's a step in the right direction.

Cool. What's next?

LOL yeah let's just ingnore how Clinton supporters were smug assholes who got more beat than big bush fire. Not only did they lose the presidency, but who has the house and senate and 69 out of 99 chambers? You couldn't lose so bad if you tried and you don't want to talk about why it happened - are you mental?

Willie71 wrote:

ScholasticSpastic wrote:

Willie71 wrote:

Oldskeptic wrote:

Or the year that a bunch of spoiled youngsters threw a hissy fit and stomped off to sulk because they didn't get the flavor of lollipop that they wanted.

Clinton's numbers would have seen her lose to Romney.

It's the year that those most susceptible to propaganda believed in the least electable democrat in history, and insulted everyone that disagreed with them. After insulting them, they expected them to fall in line like good little brainless minions, just like the insultees, and then blamed everyone they insulted for nor voting for their unelectable candidate.

Clinton underperformed with blacks, Latinos, millenials, women, and men, compared to Obama. Maybe, just maybe it was the candidate, who is to blame. Clinton and the DNC also planned for propping up Trump, Carson, and someone else I don't remember because they would be easier to beat. How did that plan work out?

This is all counterproductive bullshit. What is, is. If we don't like it, the solution is to figure out a better state of affairs and a reasonable route from here to there. Recriminations aren't going to fix anything. All they do is keep us closed off in our ineffectual little factions while otherwise preventable and very unfortunate things happen.

If the democrats don't acknowledge that pushing a corporatist hawkish Wall Street shill is a bad idea, this will not get any better. Blaming millenials will not get them engaged. It was Clinton and the DNC's job to engage voters, and they failed in the largest clusterfuck in my lifetime.

The democrats need to apologize to their base, not blame it, and move in a populist direction. People like OS need to stop being counterproductive. I pointed out that his insults to progressives would harm democrats, and I did that to everyone vilifying progressives. It fell on deaf ears, and many if them aren't learning. Trump won on a combination of nationalism, fear of others, and false populism.

I read this morning that Harry Ried is supporting Sanders' recommendation for Ellison as DNC chair. That's a step in the right direction.

Solid Clinton supporters don't have a leg to stand on. Not the people that voted for her because it was her or Trump but the ones that really, really wanted her to win. They're the opposite of Trump's deplorables, the percent of the population that will always vote one way whatever happens. When the revolution happened all those years ago, a 3rd of the country were behind the king. So we need to ignore the brainwashed portion of the country and work with the independents and progressives. Had Clinton bothered to go after their vote rather than sucking republican cock, she probably would have won.

The DNC is done - sack the lot. How they can even stay in position is beyond me considering the corruption they were involved with. Ellison does seem to be a good choice and if he gets in, we'll see more support for Sanders 2020 maybe, if he's fit enough to run again or maybe Warren.

Teague wrote:LOL yeah let's just ingnore how Clinton supporters were smug assholes who got more beat than big bush fire. Not only did they lose the presidency, but who has the house and senate and 69 out of 99 chambers? You couldn't lose so bad if you tried and you don't want to talk about why it happened - are you mental?

We don't ignore it. We move on. If we don't move on, then this Republican administration gets to come through the off-cycle election with no real opposition and may even pick up more seats in Congress. Or do you think continuing the squabbling that's been pointless since the end of the primaries is a good way to unify liberal opposition? That puts us even further behind the eight-ball on issues that won't wait for us to pull our heads out of our arses- like climate change.

It's time to set aside our feelings and look at the goals we want to accomplish and how to get from here to there. If you want something done about climate change, if you want to keep the SCOTUS from being further loaded with conservative judges than it now will be, if you want to show that smug orange cunt that we're not sold on his line of bullshit, then the way forward is simple. We fix the Democratic Party and then we win. There isn't time to build a viable third party. We work with what we've got.

For what it's worth, as I've been networking and getting a feel for my local political landscape, I'm seeing some pretty concrete evidence that Clinton supporters were, indeed, assholes. That doesn't change what needs to be done.

is the only rational response. You work with what is, not what should have been. I found it really, really, really unfair that I had to rewire and repaint most of the fishing boat because the broker let it get flooded. He SHOULD have checked the thing after the tropical storm, he SHOULD have started the engines once every week or so, he SHOULD have kept it clean and in good shape, but the lazy fucker didn't. I could either sit around bitching about it and eventually manage to sell the thing for a fraction of it's value, or I could go ahead and do the grunt work to fix it. I chose the latter. I suggest Democrats do something similar.

I think some like to squabble as it prevents them from having to think and take action.

Scot Dutchy wrote:I think some like to squabble as it prevents them from having to think and take action.

The blame game is a lot easier than rolling up your sleeves and putting your money where your mouth is. Except don't literally do that. Money is filthy.