Brexit

The talks and negotiations.

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Re: Brexit

#101  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 17, 2017 12:37 pm

It is still the UK government. It was not kicked out when you had the chance.
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Re: Brexit

#103  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 19, 2017 8:53 am

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Re: Brexit

#104  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 19, 2017 10:50 am

The UK negotiating team is 9.

The EU team is 38 backed up by 600 in the Commission.

Task Force for the Preparation and Conduct of the Negotiations with the United Kingdom

Good luck UK you will need it just to reach the table.
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Re: Brexit

#105  Postby Matt_B » Jun 19, 2017 10:58 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:The UK negotiating team is 9.


So, basically David Davis and 8 people to carry his supply of lube? :lol:
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Re: Brexit

#106  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 19, 2017 11:02 am

Matt_B wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:The UK negotiating team is 9.


So, basically David Davis and 8 people to carry his supply of lube? :lol:


:rofl:

That is about the sum of it.
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Re: Brexit

#107  Postby fisherman » Jun 19, 2017 11:13 am

Fascinating piece in The Times.

Germany has offered a soft Brexit with a reduced jurisdiction for EU judges over Britain and continued access to Europe’s single market in return for a British concession on free movement.

Sigmar Gabriel, the German foreign minister, suggested yesterday that European countries were willing to make trade-offs in advance of negotiations on Britain’s withdrawal from the EU. Talks begin in Brussels today.


Ending the jurisdiction of the EU court over Britain is a key target for Mrs May and the German proposal could be a breakthrough. The new structure could be combined with the idea of an emergency brake, allowing restrictions to be agreed on EU migration by the new legal body if high numbers cause disruption to labour markets or public services.

https://behindthepaywallblog.wordpress.com/2017/06/19/germany-proposes-soft-brexit-deal-to-keep-theresa-may-in-downing-street/

EDIT: That sounds like the mechanism Luxembourg uses to limit immigration.

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Re: Brexit

#108  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 19, 2017 11:50 am

This was not offered by Barnier. Gabriel is not part of the negotiating team. Stop hanging onto people's personal opinions because that is what they are but the tory press does not realise that. Germany is not offering anything. That is why there is a negotiating team. The tory press is printing non-news.
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Re: Brexit

#109  Postby mrjonno » Jun 19, 2017 11:57 am

Anyway good luck EU - hope you crush this nasty cancerous country. It's the only way it ever become a decent nation again

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Re: Brexit

#110  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 19, 2017 12:02 pm

EU leaders fear that fragile state of Tories will lead to brutal Brexit


Chaos in Westminster means that UK-EU discussions, which begin on Monday, could collapse without any deal


European leaders fear that Theresa May’s government is too fragile to negotiate viable terms on which to leave the union, meaning the discussions that officially begin on Monday could end in a “brutal Brexit” – under which talks collapse without any deal.

As officials began gathering in Brussels on Sunday night, the long-awaited start of negotiations was overshadowed by political chaos back in Westminster, where chancellor Philip Hammond warned that failing to strike a deal would be “a very, very bad outcome”.

The EU side fears that, in reality, the British government will struggle to maintain any position without falling apart in the coming months, because, without support from the Democratic Unionist party, May’s negotiating hand is limited. There are also concerns that any DUP backing to give May a majority in the House of Commons would come with strings attached.

More...


Too fragile. :lol:

Weak and flimsy.
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Re: Brexit

#111  Postby fisherman » Jun 19, 2017 12:05 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:This was not offered by Barnier. Gabriel is not part of the negotiating team. Stop hanging onto people's personal opinions because that is what they are but the tory press does not realise that. Germany is not offering anything. That is why there is a negotiating team. The tory press is printing non-news.


What are you gibbering about? :scratch:
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Re: Brexit

#112  Postby mrjonno » Jun 19, 2017 1:31 pm

Ending the jurisdiction of the EU court over Britain is a key target for Mrs May and the German proposal could be a breakthrough. The new structure could be combined with the idea of an emergency brake, allowing restrictions to be agreed on EU migration by the new legal body if high numbers cause disruption to labour markets or public services.


Except the UK has never had a disruption to labour markets or public services. You don't exactly get that much migration to places where there is no work or you are likely to starve in the streets.

That said maybe the Tories could spin that as a victory
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Re: Brexit

#113  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 19, 2017 2:33 pm

fisherman wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:This was not offered by Barnier. Gabriel is not part of the negotiating team. Stop hanging onto people's personal opinions because that is what they are but the tory press does not realise that. Germany is not offering anything. That is why there is a negotiating team. The tory press is printing non-news.


What are you gibbering about? :scratch:


You dont understand what the tory press is doing or you dont understand how negotiations work? What any foreign secretary says is not part of the negotiations. Only what Michel Barnier says matters. Just because he is German foreign secretary is neither here nor there and if his utterances are things the tory press likes to hear then it is tough shit. Merkel has no more power in these negotiations than any other leader of the 27 countries. The agenda has been agreed upon by the 27 countries.
A soft Brexit is nowhere in view first to be talked about are the three demands. Then but only then will trade talks take place based on the four freedoms. Barnier is very rigid in this and whatever the tories want is also neither here nor there.
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Re: Brexit

#114  Postby fisherman » Jun 19, 2017 4:41 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
fisherman wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:This was not offered by Barnier. Gabriel is not part of the negotiating team. Stop hanging onto people's personal opinions because that is what they are but the tory press does not realise that. Germany is not offering anything. That is why there is a negotiating team. The tory press is printing non-news.


What are you gibbering about? :scratch:


You dont understand what the tory press is doing or you dont understand how negotiations work? What any foreign secretary says is not part of the negotiations. Only what Michel Barnier says matters. Just because he is German foreign secretary is neither here nor there and if his utterances are things the tory press likes to hear then it is tough shit. Merkel has no more power in these negotiations than any other leader of the 27 countries. The agenda has been agreed upon by the 27 countries.
A soft Brexit is nowhere in view first to be talked about are the three demands. Then but only then will trade talks take place based on the four freedoms. Barnier is very rigid in this and whatever the tories want is also neither here nor there.


You mean this is a negotiation?
Note to self- I must stop hanging on to people's personal opinions.

I think for the foreign minister to suggest a destination UK-EU relationship that is something akin to the EEA is eminently reasonable. That it has come from the EU side on the day negotiations start is suggestive to me, that had the UK seen its relationship with EU inside the single market, then there was the possibility of flexibility and compromise. As it stands I think it is really only good as a transitional stage as the UK is likely to choose 3rd country status as a final relationship instead.
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Re: Brexit

#115  Postby Manticore » Jun 19, 2017 5:12 pm

the UK is likely to choose 3rd country world status as a final relationship instead.
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Re: Brexit

#116  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 19, 2017 5:18 pm

fisherman wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
fisherman wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:This was not offered by Barnier. Gabriel is not part of the negotiating team. Stop hanging onto people's personal opinions because that is what they are but the tory press does not realise that. Germany is not offering anything. That is why there is a negotiating team. The tory press is printing non-news.


What are you gibbering about? :scratch:


You dont understand what the tory press is doing or you dont understand how negotiations work? What any foreign secretary says is not part of the negotiations. Only what Michel Barnier says matters. Just because he is German foreign secretary is neither here nor there and if his utterances are things the tory press likes to hear then it is tough shit. Merkel has no more power in these negotiations than any other leader of the 27 countries. The agenda has been agreed upon by the 27 countries.
A soft Brexit is nowhere in view first to be talked about are the three demands. Then but only then will trade talks take place based on the four freedoms. Barnier is very rigid in this and whatever the tories want is also neither here nor there.


You mean this is a negotiation?
Note to self- I must stop hanging on to people's personal opinions.

I think for the foreign minister to suggest a destination UK-EU relationship that is something akin to the EEA is eminently reasonable. That it has come from the EU side on the day negotiations start is suggestive to me, that had the UK seen its relationship with EU inside the single market, then there was the possibility of flexibility and compromise. As it stands I think it is really only good as a transitional stage as the UK is likely to choose 3rd country status as a final relationship instead.


It did not come from the EU side. He is not a negotiator. He can say anything he likes but it is of no import. Barnier has been appointed chief negotiator and the agenda has been agreed upon by the 27 countries. This is how the EU works. It does not jump around like a knight in chess. For any change in the agenda the 27 have to be consulted.
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Re: Brexit

#117  Postby fisherman » Jun 19, 2017 5:56 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
fisherman wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
fisherman wrote:

What are you gibbering about? :scratch:


You dont understand what the tory press is doing or you dont understand how negotiations work? What any foreign secretary says is not part of the negotiations. Only what Michel Barnier says matters. Just because he is German foreign secretary is neither here nor there and if his utterances are things the tory press likes to hear then it is tough shit. Merkel has no more power in these negotiations than any other leader of the 27 countries. The agenda has been agreed upon by the 27 countries.
A soft Brexit is nowhere in view first to be talked about are the three demands. Then but only then will trade talks take place based on the four freedoms. Barnier is very rigid in this and whatever the tories want is also neither here nor there.


You mean this is a negotiation?
Note to self- I must stop hanging on to people's personal opinions.

I think for the foreign minister to suggest a destination UK-EU relationship that is something akin to the EEA is eminently reasonable. That it has come from the EU side on the day negotiations start is suggestive to me, that had the UK seen its relationship with EU inside the single market, then there was the possibility of flexibility and compromise. As it stands I think it is really only good as a transitional stage as the UK is likely to choose 3rd country status as a final relationship instead.


It did not come from the EU side. He is not a negotiator. He can say anything he likes but it is of no import. Barnier has been appointed chief negotiator and the agenda has been agreed upon by the 27 countries. This is how the EU works. It does not jump around like a knight in chess. For any change in the agenda the 27 have to be consulted.


I understand how the negotiation works. The final decision will be made by the council and this is in no way inconsistent with a government minister of the most powerful EU state expressing what could be possible. That the proposed solution is neither unreasonable or divisive for the 27 is suggestive that it would easily be acceptable, it is in fact similar to the EFTA/EU EEA arrangement so not even controversial...except to you for some reason. :scratch:
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Re: Brexit

#118  Postby fisherman » Jun 19, 2017 6:03 pm

Manticore wrote:the UK is likely to choose 3rd country world status as a final relationship instead.


Sure.
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Re: Brexit

#119  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 19, 2017 6:04 pm

Another misunderstanding and something the Anglo-Saxon mind has difficulty with; all EU states are equal. There is no one powerful state. There are states with a more prominent profile but that does not mean they have more power. Any dramatic change would have to approved by all 27 countries. He is expressing an opinion but it is just that.
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Re: Brexit

#120  Postby fisherman » Jun 19, 2017 6:16 pm

I think we are divergent in our opinions and unlikely to agree.

Thanks for sharing your views.
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