Brexit

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Re: Brexit

#1021  Postby OlivierK » Sep 30, 2017 9:40 pm

ronmcd wrote:
mrjonno wrote:
Scotland and even Wales have far more decentralised power than in the US or any other country in Europe.

:eh:

Yeah, I was shaking my head too hard to even reply. It's actually impressive to compress so many types of wrong into so few words, though. My inner literary critic particularly appreciates the eschewing of the indefensible "more" in favour of "far more".
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Re: Brexit

#1022  Postby ronmcd » Sep 30, 2017 10:03 pm

OlivierK wrote:
ronmcd wrote:
mrjonno wrote:
Scotland and even Wales have far more decentralised power than in the US or any other country in Europe.

:eh:

Yeah, I was shaking my head too hard to even reply. It's actually impressive to compress so many types of wrong into so few words, though. My inner literary critic particularly appreciates the eschewing of the indefensible "more" in favour of "far more".

A work of art, and no mistake!
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Re: Brexit

#1023  Postby mrjonno » Oct 02, 2017 8:09 am

How's Spanish federalism these days?
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Re: Brexit

#1024  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 02, 2017 10:37 am

Brexit is hitting:

Monarch Airlines collapses: UK’s biggest peacetime repatriation under way


Civil Aviation Authority says it is taking action to get 110,000 people back to UK, with 300,000 future bookings cancelled


The UK’s biggest peacetime repatriation is under way after the collapse of Monarch Airlines, with 110,000 customers to be brought home on specially chartered planes.

The accountants KPMG announced at 4am on Monday that Monarch, Britain’s longest-surviving airline brand, had been placed into administration and that all further flights from the UK had been cancelled and would not be rescheduled.

....
Greybull said the airline had been “buffeted by factors outside of its control”. Terrorism and the collapse of the pound after the Brexit vote were the two main factors, it said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/02/monarch-airlines-flights-cancelled-as-airline-goes-into-administrationMore...
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Re: Brexit

#1025  Postby ronmcd » Oct 02, 2017 1:50 pm

mrjonno wrote:How's Spanish federalism these days?

I'm no thread starter, but don't you find it fascinating there's no thread on Madrid riot police stomping on Catalan voters (and firemen, and local police)?

I do.
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Re: Brexit

#1026  Postby Tracer Tong » Oct 02, 2017 1:58 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Brexit is hitting:

Monarch Airlines collapses: UK’s biggest peacetime repatriation under way


Civil Aviation Authority says it is taking action to get 110,000 people back to UK, with 300,000 future bookings cancelled


The UK’s biggest peacetime repatriation is under way after the collapse of Monarch Airlines, with 110,000 customers to be brought home on specially chartered planes.

The accountants KPMG announced at 4am on Monday that Monarch, Britain’s longest-surviving airline brand, had been placed into administration and that all further flights from the UK had been cancelled and would not be rescheduled.

....
Greybull said the airline had been “buffeted by factors outside of its control”. Terrorism and the collapse of the pound after the Brexit vote were the two main factors, it said.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/02/monarch-airlines-flights-cancelled-as-airline-goes-into-administrationMore...


Much as it did in the case of Air Berlin, of course.
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Re: Brexit

#1027  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 02, 2017 2:12 pm

A slight difference but what's the odds he. One of the longest running air company and a mayfly.
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Re: Brexit

#1028  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 2:19 pm

Looks like the problems blighting Monarch started long before Brexit happened. Although, I doubt Brexit did much to make matters better.
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Re: Brexit

#1029  Postby Teague » Oct 02, 2017 2:41 pm

Tracer Tong wrote:
Teague wrote:And to think, we were the first to stand up against the Nazi's and now look where we are.


I'm pretty sure 'we' weren't.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarati ... rld_War_II
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Re: Brexit

#1030  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 2:42 pm

Teague wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
Teague wrote:And to think, we were the first to stand up against the Nazi's and now look where we are.


I'm pretty sure 'we' weren't.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarati ... rld_War_II


*cough*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement
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Re: Brexit

#1031  Postby Teague » Oct 02, 2017 3:32 pm

OlivierK wrote:
Sendraks wrote:There are plenty of people who are sufficiently tribal that they identify with their county, rather than being "English." If their county identity neatly overlaps with that of a preferred sports team, so much the better.

It's always seemed odd to me that a country like England with such strong regional identities hasn't adopted a more federal system of government. Having said that, I live in a federal system, whose faults are sometimes extremely frustrating (non-uniform laws, endless buck-passing between state and federal governments over funding of national infrastructure within a state), so I recognise the fact that federalism is not a panacea for regional grievances, but it still seems it could fit well in England as part of a federal UK.


No thanks, I like being British because I'm not a closed minded prick. If we can't embrace our kinsmen in 2017 then when the fuck can we? It drives me nuts this whole Brexit thing - the NI question is retarded - retrarded because when they decided to give the plebs the vote they were so stupid they saw none of this coming.

Orrrrrrrrrrr.....

They knew exactly what they were doing, it's a bid for power and to make us more like America so we can have a pay equality gap just like they do and less rights and regulations. I thought Corbyn was ok, he's better than the Tories but ffs, he hates Europe too and we're only 30 miles off the coast!
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Re: Brexit

#1032  Postby Teague » Oct 02, 2017 3:34 pm

ronmcd wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
ronmcd wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:

The areas in which devolved bodies, such as the Scottish Parliament, are authoritative is set out in law. In the case of the Scotland Act, international relations, including with the EU, are explicitly reserved matters. A single UK leave vote is therefore all that is required.

No argument from me, a single leave UK vote is all that is legally required. That does not mean it is a satisfactory outcome.


But the outcome is Britain's departure from the EU. How could that not be satisfactory?

:naughty2:

Good to see you agree that Northern Ireland at the very least should remain in EU

:naughty2:


Yes but as a Brit, NI is as much Britain as England and Scotland is so why are the two of us going to be denied access. You want passport control when you hit Birmingham???? I think not Ron!


:P
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Re: Brexit

#1033  Postby Teague » Oct 02, 2017 3:59 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Teague wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
Teague wrote:And to think, we were the first to stand up against the Nazi's and now look where we are.


I'm pretty sure 'we' weren't.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarati ... rld_War_II


*cough*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement


LOL we still declared war!
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Re: Brexit

#1034  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 4:11 pm

So we wound up declaring war because the UK and others had failed to stand up to the Nazi regime and that led to it progressing to the point where war became inevitable and inevitably the UK declared war.

In Germany Pre wwII, people were actively standing up to the Nazis and dying as a result. The UK lagged behind in the "standing up" stakes.

I suppose the best you can say is that whilst the UK was late to the party, it wasn't the latest.
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Re: Brexit

#1035  Postby Tracer Tong » Oct 02, 2017 4:41 pm

Teague wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
Teague wrote:And to think, we were the first to stand up against the Nazi's and now look where we are.


I'm pretty sure 'we' weren't.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarati ... rld_War_II


I’m still pretty sure ‘we’ weren’t.
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Re: Brexit

#1036  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 02, 2017 6:01 pm

Teague wrote:Yes but as a Brit, NI is as much Britain as England and Scotland is so why are the two of us going to be denied access. You want passport control when you hit Birmingham???? I think not Ron!


You can thank de de Valera and Michael Collins for that mess. De Valrea wanted independence at all cost and Mick Collins could not keep out of the bed of Kitty Kiernan planted by the British government when the negotiations were taking place in London.
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Re: Brexit

#1037  Postby OlivierK » Oct 03, 2017 2:43 am

Teague wrote:
OlivierK wrote:
Sendraks wrote:There are plenty of people who are sufficiently tribal that they identify with their county, rather than being "English." If their county identity neatly overlaps with that of a preferred sports team, so much the better.

It's always seemed odd to me that a country like England with such strong regional identities hasn't adopted a more federal system of government. Having said that, I live in a federal system, whose faults are sometimes extremely frustrating (non-uniform laws, endless buck-passing between state and federal governments over funding of national infrastructure within a state), so I recognise the fact that federalism is not a panacea for regional grievances, but it still seems it could fit well in England as part of a federal UK.


No thanks, I like being British because I'm not a closed minded prick. If we can't embrace our kinsmen in 2017 then when the fuck can we? It drives me nuts this whole Brexit thing - the NI question is retarded - retrarded because when they decided to give the plebs the vote they were so stupid they saw none of this coming.

Orrrrrrrrrrr.....

They knew exactly what they were doing, it's a bid for power and to make us more like America so we can have a pay equality gap just like they do and less rights and regulations. I thought Corbyn was ok, he's better than the Tories but ffs, he hates Europe too and we're only 30 miles off the coast!

I'm not sure how a federal system would be incompatible with feeling British. I live in a federal system, and I feel Australian. The fact that a state government decides funding allocations for schools in my region, or even what proportion of the state budget is needed for health/education, etc doesn't change that at all - I really don't have much sense at all of feeling New South Welsh, although I do tend to support my home state in interstate sport. That's about the limit of my state affiliation, and I'm not sure that's a recipe for small-minded-prickishness any more than someone from Somerset following Somerset's cricket team, or a Liverpudlian following the Reds. :dunno:
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Re: Brexit

#1038  Postby mrjonno » Oct 03, 2017 7:57 am

I'm not sure how a federal system would be incompatible with feeling British


We do have a federal system, while Australia calls the federated units states we call them 'nations' but basically its the same thing except the nations have more power than any Australia (or US) state. The identity of nation/state is far stronger as well (probably too strong for a stable country which the UK of course is not)
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Re: Brexit

#1039  Postby ronmcd » Oct 03, 2017 8:25 am

mrjonno wrote:
I'm not sure how a federal system would be incompatible with feeling British


We do have a federal system, while Australia calls the federated units states we call them 'nations' but basically its the same thing except the nations have more power than any Australia (or US) state. The identity of nation/state is far stronger as well (probably too strong for a stable country which the UK of course is not)

Different words often, interestingly, mean different things.
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Re: Brexit

#1040  Postby mrjonno » Oct 03, 2017 9:44 am

Depends on the context, and in the context of decentralised government, the 'state' of Texas, the 'state' of NSW has the same meaning as the 'nation' of Scotland

Ronmcd do you really want 'federalisation' you want independence?, what not be open about it . You already are federal
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